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Question for the members

• kavvz 2,195 Posts

  Wed, Jul 11 2018 5:23 AM

  Woodoworkery:

  You have guys that have been here for 7-9 years , and now you have guys that been here 1-3 years keeping up with them. Something is not right, and I think it is due to all these aids that are available.

  Maybe the guys that have been here for 7-9 years shouldn't have made those aids available!  ;)

  At the end of the day this is a game.  Some try to make it mimic real golf, but it's not that it's purely a game.

  The fact that new players become good shouldn't surprise anyone and certainly doesn't mean all those cheat.  People are just good at games sometimes.  Happens in all games and usually those that have been playing a long time and have become good at said game get their knickers in a knot when new players best them.  That's not new either.

  In any event, I've used tips/tricks/aids from a bunch of top players to get better, and I'm glad they made that information available.  I'm on the side of use whatever tools you want within the rules of the game.  

  A spreadsheet is the same as someone mentally calculating something.  Say you have 172 yards no wind well that's about a 6 iron FB.  Players that have been around for a while know this and hit it no spreadsheet required.  Now lets add 45 ft of elevation. Whether you figure out in your head to add 45 / 3 = 15 yards to the shot, or type those numbers into a spreadsheet its the same thing.  Still math, still NOT "feeling" the shot. 

  A ruler is the same as using the width of the aimer box (10 yds) to aim.  Rulers are just shortcuts.

   

• 1,800 Posts

  Wed, Jul 11 2018 5:37 AM

  kavvz is spot on with what he says.......do it in your head  or look at a note written down......exactly the same.....your applying maths to the shot......nothing to do with feel......spreadsheets and rulers just speed up the game........thats a good thing isnt it ?

• srellim234 2,077 Posts

  Wed, Jul 11 2018 8:46 AM

  Woodoworkery:

  You guys are starting to sidetrack. The question was spreadsheets, rulers for moving the marker( that the spreadsheet tells you where to put it, protractors that tells you the clock hand location, now a ruler to tell you the spin dot location. Stopwatches to time the dots, to put that avg into a spreadsheet that tells you where to put the marker on the green to make the putt.

  Do you think this is the intent WGT had in mind to play the game? 

  The problem is you say cheat, and the first word that pops in your head is an auto dinger.

  You have guys that have been here for 7-9 years , and now you have guys that been here 1-3 years keeping up with them. Something is not right, and I think it is due to all these aids that are available.

  Of the things you mention, the only one I see as a possible violation is the stopwatch timing the dots. A real life professional player who plays the same hole over and over will eventually narrow down his target almost to the blade of grass he wants to hit. He picks the specific target with the aid of his notebook and experience.

  I'm sure the founders of St. Andrews never had in mind the GPS, rangefinders, high-tech clubs and balls, etc., etc. of today. But, they exist and they're accepted more and more. Yes, those aids get somewhat limited by the powers that be from time to time but things are still light years ahead of what they were when the game started. Some people call the innovations to play better cheating. Others call it progress.

  Because of technological improvements a larger number of people are much better at scoring in real-world golf, too, when you only consider the very top players. PGA leaderboards are now crowded and many of those names are relatively young and inexperienced compared to the leaderboards of yesteryear.

  For the average low-level player who just wants to play a game and be entertained, however, all these aids are really no big deal.

• Yiannis1970 3,269 Posts

  Wed, Jul 11 2018 9:19 AM

  It all resolves in terms of definition. No, they are not cheaters. Cheaters are only those who manipulate the game in order to score low.

  I have never used aids and i never will. For me WGT is an ability game consisting of memory, improvisations, accuracy, reflexes. You get the credits and aknowledgement if you do well in all of these sectors. If the game is only limited to hit the ding, what's the ability in that? Ok, you got excellent reflexes, well done...but you get 0 points on every other sector. So..

  Everyone thinks the game in a different way. For some everything is winning. For some everything is having fun playing well at the same time. I accept the fact that i cannot remember everything, so sometimes it's logical to have bad shots. I won't change my attitude just because those 1-2 shots cost me a super round. I settle with my mistakes and the sense of imperfection and i 'll stick with playing by feel and only with what it is in my head.

  In the same line of concept, i disregard players with 1.000.000 rounds and 0 alt and mps.

• PRIESTESS 10,703 Posts

  Wed, Jul 11 2018 9:30 AM

  Woodoworkery:

  How many think that playing the game with protractors,rulers, spreadsheets for Tee shots, fairway shots, now a spreadsheet to figure out the move on the green, I even seen a ruler to adjust the spin on the ball. This Is getting way out of hand.

  There are a few players that play the game as it was intended, that I know of. F mags , UJJ, Jay W, Bollox, and wontonamo. There are probably a lot more.  

  But how many think this is ok, or getting a little out of hand?

  I think some even use a sperate computer to use a spreadsheet, so not to move the cursor off the screen. I am not attacking anyone, I was just thinking what the heck will be next. I know I use a spreadsheet, but when I record, or stream I show it for all to see. That doesn't make it right, I am still using a spreadsheet. 

  So just for the heck of it what is the overall thinking of the members. 

   

  Play someone on a 30 second timer .(Shame we can't go lower than 30 seconds.) Then you will get an idea of how fast their mind works. Some players need  time to work out a shot via spread sheets and rulers some can simply rely on memory 90% of the time and guess the other 10%  . I

  I am with Yannis. The difficulty in this game is dependent  upon you doing everything in your head. Take that away and it becomes a game  of gadgets  !!  

• Herjavimi 711 Posts

  Wed, Jul 11 2018 9:58 AM

  Sorry for my English I will try to make me understand. This game is addictive I have to recognize it but it is just a computer game. Real golf players have a coach a psicologist, a personal trainer and a professional caddy but on Sunday they become 100.000 $ or even a million. What are we playing for?...Just for fun. I play when I have time, try to enjoy to do it better in every game I play. I get frustrated when I do it wrong but this is part of the game too. I think that if you need gadgets (Yiannis is right they are not cheaters) or even worse a cheating programm you have a problem, not in WGT but in your real life. You must have a sad life when your ambition is to be the star of a computer game.

• kavvz 2,195 Posts

  Wed, Jul 11 2018 10:42 AM

  PRIESTESS:

  Play someone on a 30 second timer .(Shame we can't go lower than 30 seconds.) Then you will get an idea of how fast their mind works. Some players need  time to work out a shot via spread sheets and rulers some can simply rely on memory 90% of the time and guess the other 10%  . I

  I am with Yannis. The difficulty in this game is dependent  upon you doing everything in your head. Take that away and it becomes a game  of gadgets  !!  

  Hopefully for the last time, if you're doing something (anything) in your head, they you are not playing by feel at all.  

  2x2 = 4 on a spreadsheet

  2x2 = 4 in ones head

   

• Robert1893 7,666 Posts

  Wed, Jul 11 2018 11:22 AM

  kavvz:

  Hopefully for the last time, if you're doing something (anything) in your head, they you are not playing by feel at all.  

  +1
  
  Some people are drawing a distinction that has no difference. 
  
  Besides, if some players are so against the use of "aids" or "gadgets," then they probably should think about eliminating larger monitors, gaming mice, higher quality balls, and higher quality clubs (in addition to eliminating putter pal and shot pal). 
  
  All of those items would fall under the category of externalities that help improve scores. Of course, we all know the true definition of "gadget": it's what the other player used to score lower. 

• craigswan 30,973 Posts

  Wed, Jul 11 2018 12:41 PM

  I watched a golf professional on a simulator live on sky sports .

  He had 2 drivers . One was the latest driver from this year and the other was from the 1970's .

  He explained there was a tree just off the fairway 200 yards away on a dogleg .

  He would hit the old driver straight up the middle and attempt to fade it around the tree and run it another 100 yards up the fairway . The ball stopped dead level with the tree and never moved .

  The ball hit by the new driver bent beautifully around the tree and ran the 100 yards up the fairway .

  Technology waits for no man .

• PRIESTESS 10,703 Posts

  Wed, Jul 11 2018 2:08 PM

  kavvz:

  PRIESTESS:

  Play someone on a 30 second timer .(Shame we can't go lower than 30 seconds.) Then you will get an idea of how fast their mind works. Some players need  time to work out a shot via spread sheets and rulers some can simply rely on memory 90% of the time and guess the other 10%  . I

  I am with Yannis. The difficulty in this game is dependent  upon you doing everything in your head. Take that away and it becomes a game  of gadgets  !!  

  Hopefully for the last time, if you're doing something (anything) in your head, they you are not playing by feel at all.  

  2x2 = 4 on a spreadsheet

  2x2 = 4 in ones head

   

  I am referring to  a 18-20 mph wind coming in at 8 0 clock with 12 elevation from 187.   Working that shot out would be feel but i know some will put that info into a chart and get an answer.Is punching info into a chart and receiving  an answer on what to hit actually gaming?

  Is that player actually playing the game??