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Question for the members

Sun, Jul 26 2020 9:49 AM (140 replies)
  • Woodoworkery
    3,471 Posts
    Tue, Jul 10 2018 9:59 AM

    How many think that playing the game with protractors,rulers, spreadsheets for Tee shots, fairway shots, now a spreadsheet to figure out the move on the green, I even seen a ruler to adjust the spin on the ball. This Is getting way out of hand.

    There are a few players that play the game as it was intended, that I know of. F mags , UJJ, Jay W, Bollox, and wontonamo. There are probably a lot more.  

    But how many think this is ok, or getting a little out of hand?

    I think some even use a sperate computer to use a spreadsheet, so not to move the cursor off the screen. I am not attacking anyone, I was just thinking what the heck will be next. I know I use a spreadsheet, but when I record, or stream I show it for all to see. That doesn't make it right, I am still using a spreadsheet. 

    So just for the heck of it what is the overall thinking of the members. 

     

  • Robert1893
    6,052 Posts
    Tue, Jul 10 2018 10:30 AM

    I'm fine with all of that.

    But if they start using a compass... that's too far! Ban the compass, I say!!

  • Woodoworkery
    3,471 Posts
    Tue, Jul 10 2018 11:25 AM

    lol Robert, but the more I think about it, the more it is a form of cheating the players that play the game as intended, or as some call it by feel.

    For those of you that use these rulers, spreadsheets, protractors, and whatever try playing a game without the helpers, you will soon have a lot more respect for the players that don't use them.

    But on with the question, what does the community think

  • kavvz
    2,109 Posts
    Tue, Jul 10 2018 11:39 AM

    All of the above is Aok with me.

    I'd ask what's the difference between a player that types numbers into a spreadsheet vs. a player that does those same calculations in their head.

    Is it the mere appearance of a visual tool that puts people off, or the fact that calculations are done at all no matter how.

    I'd submit that players who say they play by feel are still doing some sort of math.

     

  • LuckySkreet
    589 Posts
    Tue, Jul 10 2018 11:53 AM

    Woodoworkery:

    How many think that playing the game with protractors,rulers, spreadsheets for Tee shots, fairway shots, now a spreadsheet to figure out the move on the green, I even seen a ruler to adjust the spin on the ball. This Is getting way out of hand.

    There are a few players that play the game as it was intended, that I know of. F mags , UJJ, Jay W, Bollox, and wontonamo. There are probably a lot more.  

    But how many think this is ok, or getting a little out of hand?

    I think some even use a sperate computer to use a spreadsheet, so not to move the cursor off the screen. I am not attacking anyone, I was just thinking what the heck will be next. I know I use a spreadsheet, but when I record, or stream I show it for all to see. That doesn't make it right, I am still using a spreadsheet. 

    So just for the heck of it what is the overall thinking of the members. 

     

    Wood.......

     

    Valid points...........unfortunately, they've all been debated over and over.

     

    Personally, I'm not of fan of the "gadgets"....... I see no issue using notes which may or may not include putting speed spreadsheets. When you think about it, after thousands of rounds and tens of thousands of putts, even the putting spread sheets become archaic, or they should. I, at this point, rely on memory unless it's some occasion where I have a long, unfamiliar putt.

     

    But, it is what it is.... there are plenty who can't hit the broad side of a barn without a "gadget"....... and that's simply the truth...

     

    Obviously WGT can't police the "gadget" use.....so, it's fair to say they are here to stay. Golf, in general, has always been considered and "honorable" sport......... I think those who utilize the "gadgets" cross the line; but then again, there will always be those who defend otherwise.

     

    I, at one point, had hoped WGT would utilize the platform and continue to allow the game to "evolve". Examples being the following. In addition to a range of green speeds and wind, I wish they would include variables for weather....such as wet, rain, hot and sunny, fairway divots, etc... These variables alone would play havoc on the "gadgets"..... Imagine the standard "full backspin" player who now has all his shots fall out of the sky like a sack of bricks only to have a " wet plugged lie" second shot. Imagine the "gadget putter" who has to actually consider the difference between a "wet" or a "hot a crusty" 13 speed putt.

     

    In regards to calling "gadgets" cheating......yeah, it is cheating. Matter of fact, it's cheating in every sense....... when playing "alone" it's cheating themselves....... when playing RG's, Tournaments, and Mulit stroke rounds it's cheating others.......

     

    I guess the best phrase could be considered..... "Those who can......do. Those who can't.........gadget."

     

     

  • craigswan
    17,436 Posts
    Tue, Jul 10 2018 12:43 PM

    I  know one guy who plays with 2 computer screens side by side .

    He can see the tee on one screen and the green on the other .

  • Woodoworkery
    3,471 Posts
    Tue, Jul 10 2018 12:55 PM

    I guess the point is after a while when using the helpers you start to get the feeling your a competitor, but take the tools away play by feel, see if you can determine the affect on the shot with a 30 tailwind at 41 degrees , or a 32 headwind at 237degrees ( distance and placement of marker)  try to make that 15foot putt by actually reading the green and not counting dot speed and plugging the numbers in to see where to move the marker.  

     Well let me ask this, there are a lot of players that have been here less than a year with a champ title, and an avg 50-55. Do you think this would happen without the helpers, I don't think so.

    So I am against it, I use a spreadsheet, and I am trying to break away from it, as you can see I have gone thru a lot of credits and still have not got it 

  • alosso
    19,866 Posts
    Tue, Jul 10 2018 1:15 PM

    My point is, you can see this game as a computer game which calls for spreadsheets and any other tool to measure any situation that may occur.

    I've seen guys submit to that (and be conquered by authority), and I tell you - it's not my way.

    In real golf, I appreciate the feel of the shots, including success as well as failure, and I want to repeat that here. I rely on feel (and some knowledge) to shoot to the greens, and I add some help of a (paper) Excel table to succeed on the greens.

    If I hit the green accordingly, here or in real life, I go crazy of joy - that's the feeling I want to relish!

  • bubbsboy
    6,870 Posts
    Tue, Jul 10 2018 2:22 PM
    Is it the reason WGT alter the game slightly.......just slightly.....or do they not ;-)
  • abbielb
    1,800 Posts
    Tue, Jul 10 2018 3:10 PM

    kavvz:

    All of the above is Aok with me.

    I'd ask what's the difference between a player that types numbers into a spreadsheet vs. a player that does those same calculations in their head.

    Is it the mere appearance of a visual tool that puts people off, or the fact that calculations are done at all no matter how.

    I'd submit that players who say they play by feel are still doing some sort of math.

     

    very good point......i write notes.........that i refer too.......just like notebook that is sold by wgt......am i a cheat ?

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