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Just an FYI on Beta Testing......

• FigJam0770 220 Posts

  Tue, Jul 21 2009 7:02 AM

  Beta testing and Beta versions are designed to produce feedback from players concerning gameplay issues.  Issues ranging from bugs to "what I'd love to see".  Especially when making a sports based game, realism is the holy grail.  How can I build this game so that people can almost smell the fresh cut greens and hear the distant sound of a lawn mower maintaining the back 9?  Not....how can I build a game to 85%.....then start charging people for game improvements.  Improve the gameplay through programming.....THEN you can charge whatever you want for "upgrades."

  Having said that....if funding capital ran low....fine.  But use some of that extra revenue to finish the product you started.  Finish programming the nuances of the game that make it so real.....so enjoyable.  The tier system is a great idea.  The proshop is a great idea.....finishing the dynamics of the game is a BETTER idea.

  The following are some "missing" nuances that I have noticed.  I am sure others have some ideas as well.

  1.  The ability to work the ball via fade or draw.  HUGE issue when all you can do is move your shot cursor left or right and pray it stays in the short grass because the hole doglegs and all you can do is hit it straight.

  2.  The Tier System should be a demanding challenge in order to advance.  Master level should be obtained thru ridiculous skills (ie Tid.....Lee...etc.)....not because you had a good few rounds as a pro and then....poof !!!! 

  3.  Abilities in the game should become more fine-tuned as you get better.  If you are adhering to realism.....the Masters should be able to throw darts.....backspin it a good bit.....etc.

  4.  Backspin......is weak at best right now.  Obviously, if you are a lower tier-skilled player....you arent going to be able to back it up like Mickelson.....but the higher tiers should be able to as they progress.  I doubt anyone wants the "GoldenTee Golf" backspin where you can stick it and spin it back with a driver. 

  5.  Give the option of a lefty.  It isnt a difficult thing to incorporate into the program.

  6.  Change hole locations......daily.  This, too, is not a difficult addition.

  7.  Provide more 18 hole courses to play.  Playing the same one or two 18 courses gets boring.  And bored people dont pay the bills.

  8.  Come up with a few different contests such as Par 3 challenge.....Putting contest...etc.  Keep it interesting and you will keep them playing.....and ultimately paying.

  9.  Allow groups to play 18 holes.  Shorten the shot timers to keep the round from being too long.  If you cant hit it in 30-45 secs......well.....you get the idea.

  10.  Do your best to police the cheating.  You're never going to stop it 100%, but things like Macro cheats can be eliminated.  Several other sports-based pc games have done this and done it well.

  Again......just some ideas.  I am certain I will get flamed for complaining.....whining.....etc, by the big dogs.......the old schoolers....and everyone else, but oh well.  The purpose again of beta versions and beta testing is to LISTEN to feedback.  Golf games on the pc are plentiful.  Seperating yours from the rest takes alot.  I personally like this game overall.....would just like to see some things addressed.  As a "customer" (as in paying), I have the right to voice my opinion.  All CONSTRUCTIVE ideas and criticism are welcome. 

  Good luck and keep knocking them stiff !!

• AvatarLee 1,644 Posts

  Tue, Jul 21 2009 7:50 AM

   

  1.  Agree 100%, add in there the option to change the ball position in your stance (forward, back, etc) as I have stated before

  2.  Agree here also, the admins have said that they are going to review the parameters of moving through the tiers, don't know what ever happened to this, WGT?  There are still many who do not believe they should be as high as they are, as we've seen from numerous posts.  Keep in mind, if you want to be competitive though, you'll probably have to settle for lower prizes, oh and not to mention the increased ability to 'sandbag' for those lesser prizes. =(

  3.  IDK here... seems like a 'rich get richer, poor stay poor' kind of mentality...  do you really want the likes of the Masters here to have that much of an advantage over someone who doesn't have the time to 'build' their character?  And how far is too far? 450 yard drives like TW games?

  4.  I think we all agree with the lack of spin you can put on the ball, goes up there with shot shaping and ball position.... I've always said, give me the rope and let me hang myself... that's where the 'realism' will come from, we need more ways to make wrong decisions, right now the accuracy is just too easy.  Oh and what about affect that lie angle has on a shot?  (I know, I've said it before but may as well get it all out there)

  5.  Okay sure, not a lefty myself, but ya they should have it.  Is it a priority, no.  It ranks down there with beer cart girls and crowds in the background (see other posts)

  6.  Been mentioned ad nauseam here in the forums, but I think it may be quite a bit more work than everyone expects.  Based on the perspectives of the pictures (remember this game is not CGI) there may be a lot of difficulties moving the pins far from where they are right now.  They would probably have to go out and take a whole lot more pictures of each green...(not to mention the re-programming part to add the multiple possible locations)  I don't know, I'm just speculating, but I don't think it's as easy as everyone may think it is.

  7.  Again, along with #6 I think it's probably a lot more work that what some people may think.  There are literally hundreds of thousands of pictures that they take of a course, they all need to be overlaid on their virtual terrain, test, change, test again.... and so on.  It's much easier to do it for a set of 9 hole skill challenges where there are a ton less possible outcomes of a shot.  I'm sure more courses are in the works, we just need to be a bit more patient.

  8.  Nice ideas, have been suggested before along with match play, best ball, skins and scramble options in multiplayer.

  9.  This is a recent discussion, and I'm all for having a configurable shot clock when your setting up a game.  As for playing the full 18 holes, again, a little patience, I'm sure it is on the way.

  10.  Agree 100%

  11.  While we're at it, put a practice facility on the list, you know, driving range, putting green etc. etc.

  *edit* Oh and why can't 'Beta' mean testing the revenue stream that this game will produce, and gauging the interest in their 'micro-transaction' model?  I'm sure future investors and sponsors are very interested in seeing these test results.  I think it's called a feasibility study.  (Please don't interpret this as a smart-a$$ remark)

  Lee

   

• FigJam0770 220 Posts

  Tue, Jul 21 2009 9:19 AM

  Thank you for the constructive and insightful comments Lee.   I am a firm believer that if you can do it in a real game......you should be able to do it in a virtual game.  In defense of #3......if the tier system is setup correctly......the Masters wont be playing anyone but Masters level players for tourny prizes etc.  I think it would inspire lesser or less avid players to say "Man....did you see that shot he just hit?"  I wanna do that too !!!  For #5, if the roles were reversed and lefty was all you had....the righties would be bitching up a storm.  I am left handed and its sad to see somethig so simple be neglected.  #6 and #7 I will gladly defer to your post.  I dont claim to be an expert and if it is as involved as you say.......then my hats off to the guys programming.  I also agree that testing a revenue stream is necessary....but there is, in my opinion, a difference between testing a revenue stream and pushing a revenue stream when the final product isnt completed.

  Again....I appreciate your comments.  I only posted this because I DO enjoy this game and want it to succeed.

• AvatarLee 1,644 Posts

  Tue, Jul 21 2009 9:49 AM

  #3.  Yes the key phrase there is "if the tier system is setup correctly" which I would think it is not quite yet at the moment.  But as far masters getting more benefits such as spin, longer distance, more precision, etc.  I think WGT needs to tread carefully here.  They have already introduced clubs that are only available to upper tier players (pro and master) and I think this is as far as it should go.  IMO they need to stay away from the whole 'attribute building' theory... It can get waaay out of control.

  #5.  My only point is that it is pure aesthetics, does it improve game play?  No not really.  Sure I would question if they only had left handed avatars, and if I were left handed I'd probably feel the same as you about it, but it would still not be high on my list of 'wants' and definitely not on my list of 'needs'

  As far as the revenue model testing, you are very correct, there is a fine line testing the marketplace and pushing an incomplete product.... where do you draw it though?  You want to show potential investors/sponsors that there is a lot of interest, yet you don't want to pillage the community whom you are asking for help to fine tune your product... I don't know, but personally, the amount of enjoyment that I have received so far from this site far outweighs the cost of upgrading some clubs!  So ya, I have no problem chipping in a few dollars to support what I think can be a great product.  Especially if it brings in more of the high profile names like Callaway, Titleist, Nike, etc.  I just hope others can feel the same.

  Lee

• WGTalex 2,087 Posts

  Tue, Jul 21 2009 10:09 AM

  Thanks for the comments and suggestions. Regarding tiers, we do plan to make some changes to them for the next release (this is tentative), which would make it a bit more challenging to advance.

• TaxAnalyst 18 Posts

  Tue, Jul 21 2009 11:54 AM

  One of the biggest issues concerning the tiers and Alex's statement about plans to retool the tier advancement criteria is that they would likely NOT be retroactive.  And due to WGT's past refusal to hit the reset button on scoring averages (despite many requests for such a procedure) it's likely that some of the pseudo-Masters who got bumped up lately would forever be damned to stay there despite not being remotely competitive.  This is because they can't open another account to manually reset themselves.  Catch-22 if you ask me.

• rohdem 40 Posts

  Wed, Jul 22 2009 8:25 AM

  Agreed.  I just got bumped up to Master last week...just when I was finally starting to really enjoy the game.  The clubs were about right for the tees on Pro, I was competitive in the weekly tournaments.....now I'm back to getting smoked in the tournaments by far better players and experiencing the frustration of not being able to reach par 4's in 2 if the wind is wrong.

• rohdem 40 Posts

  Wed, Jul 22 2009 8:27 AM

  ALSO,  I don't think more courses can be stressed enough.  GIVE US MORE COURSES PLEASE!!  18 hole courses, not closest to the pin stuff.

• TheWombat 23 Posts

  Thu, Jul 23 2009 5:47 AM

  That of course is even if you manage to get a decent game in multi-player.

  First four starts my morning.... all except myself had quit by the second.

  It's fortunate that there are some good players who realise that failure on the first hole

  doesn't mean a bad game.

   

  God bless them.

   

  Just one other thing.... when the wind meter denotes the wind is actually coming from the left at 10 mph,  it does actually help if the wind blows and not put the players actually where they aimed thus negating the allowences that had been made for wind direction and speed.

• CASH11 239 Posts

  Sat, Jul 25 2009 6:11 AM

  I agree with FigJam on all his points but I also add the following:

  1. The inconsistantcy of the meter speed particularly with putting.  I have an upgraded putter and it still seems to have a mind of it's own.  Sometimes it works prefectly and sometimes it doesn't.  I know it is not my computer or ISP.

  2. Fig's 4. on backspin.  I now own all brands of the upgraded wedges and the Taylor Made claims to have the most backspin yet at best they stop the ball dead (no backing up of the ball).  Compared to the starter set they are better but I was expecting more.