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#### Understanding Wind, Precision & Forgiveness

Wed, Aug 11 2021 5:16 PM (40 replies)
•  ZioMio 4,680 Posts Sat, Dec 22 2012 12:19 PM

•  YankeeJim 25,827 Posts Sat, Dec 22 2012 12:47 PM

Wouldn't those circles have the flag at the center? What creates the offsets you use in your example?

As for the wind influence, it is common knowledge that you increase your odds of a decent hit if you miss on the wind side of the ding. Dinging brings in the entire circle where, in my mind, you limit the circle to the "good" side when you miss smart. Does this make sense?

Also, I have always believed the ball has a lot to do with deviations. How do better balls affect those circles?

•  SGTBilko 1,686 Posts Sat, Dec 22 2012 1:35 PM

Yes you are correct YJ, but in the sense that the the center would be the central point or center of the two circles. The positions of the circles change based upon where the ball is going to land. For example using the two circles below this shot would probably come up long and center to a bit right of the pin.  I agree,if you are going to miss the ding you want to miss it to wind side of the ding. But on occasion I have seen a miss to the opposite side of the ding come out in ones favor, while rare it does sometimes happen, but you are correct on that. As for the balls effecting this, I have never factored it in to anything except for distance. For example using the R11 PW the rating shows 120 yds, with the Nile XL the new distance averages 125, I say averages because there is a deviation of 2-3 feet either way in a neutral wind.

•  YankeeJim 25,827 Posts Sat, Dec 22 2012 1:53 PM

I picture deviation as the "shifting" of the circle in the direction of the missed ding. I suspect there's actually 2 deviations at work here-the circle shifting and the deviation within the circle.

The reason I ask about the balls is because I'm deep into a study (non empirical) about the difference between the Callaway (s) ball and the Tour-SD (GI-SD, too, depends on the dingability quotient of the day) with respect to the deviation on a missed ding. Dinging is king, like they say, but not every shot is a ding so you have to expect to deal with the results. The WGT ball is far superior in that respect-you get extremely good results by playing off ding. However, playing off ding with the Callaway gets really variant results. Most of this study is done on CTTHs where the shot repetition is easily compared. It bears out in the other modes.

Studying your ideas goes a long way to verifying what I have learned and believed for a long time. This is where gamers get frustrated but players that play to an area excel. (Perhaps that is better said players that don't have exact expectations.) In the end I find it very effective in replicating what most golfers experience on the course IRL. You know everybody has the same wtf moments in their real game as here  and with the extensive online coverage of the major golf events, you see exactly there what happens here, right down to balls bouncing off pins and winding up in the drink.

•  SGTBilko 1,686 Posts Sat, Dec 22 2012 2:29 PM

YankeeJim:
I picture deviation as the "shifting" of the circle in the direction of the missed ding. I suspect there's actually 2 deviations at work here-the circle shifting and the deviation within the circle.

Yes, absolutely correct!

Yes, I have to agree playing for an area is what I have always shot for. I have always known that my putting is my weakest area, so I tend to shot for an area in which I know there is less green deviation compared to other areas and is the main reason I often tend to utilize female avatars over the males. My own experience has shown that the female avatar is the better putting avatar. I believe it has to do with the female avatar having 1 more putting movement than the male. I have no data on this just going off of what has worked for me over the years. Which brings to question another area, do you prefer certain avatars over others because they have less effect on the ball or have you never experienced this.

•  YankeeJim 25,827 Posts Sat, Dec 22 2012 3:19 PM

SGTBilko:
do you prefer certain avatars over others because they have less effect on the ball or have you never experienced this.

I've been an avatar putter since the day I read that article and never experimented with any other avatar than the male one I use. I don't like to experiment with putting. Ding or go home, for me. LOL, spend a lot of time at home.  ;-)

•  SHRUDE 5,835 Posts Sat, Dec 22 2012 9:00 PM

ZioMio:
Are you a decedent of the Mayans?

Maybe you meant descendant :)

WGT Crop Circles..

•  SGTBilko 1,686 Posts Sun, Dec 23 2012 5:08 AM

SHRUDE:

ZioMio:
Are you a decedent of the Mayans?

Maybe you meant descendant :)

WGT Crop Circles..

I like that...WGT Crop circles!! Funny

•  Choppography 2,166 Posts Sun, Dec 23 2012 7:00 AM

Don't forget, you also have to have your calculations correct in the first place for the pin to be centered in the circles.

If you don't aim correctly for the side vector of wind, your pin will not be the center of your circle.  If you miss the calcs by a yard, your center will be a yard off the pin.  It's possible your circle doesn't even have the pin in it.  This is why heavier winds become more challenging to score.  You can carry your spot, hit a hump, and shoot right off the green, too.

These circles are a concept, people, to help you understand the variance within the game.  The formula, although great, isn't going to be your solution.  It still comes down to practice, experience, dinging your shot, and knowing your course so well you know where you even need to put the ball before you swing.

•  SGTBilko 1,686 Posts Sun, Dec 23 2012 7:13 AM

Choppography:

Don't forget, you also have to have your calculations correct in the first place for the pin to be centered in the circles.

If you don't aim correctly for the side vector of wind, your pin will not be the center of your circle.  If you miss the calcs by a yard, your center will be a yard off the pin.  It's possible your circle doesn't even have the pin in it.  This is why heavier winds become more challengin

Great point Choppography....Thanks for pointing this out, I completely forgot to add this.