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Newer top tiers

Wed, Jun 27 2012 11:33 AM (73 replies)
  • MBaggese
    15,367 Posts
    Fri, Jun 22 2012 1:04 AM

    pjctas0822:
    It is so unreal off the tees when adding TS or BS. 

    With a driver think of it like this...

    Playing back in my stance I have delofted the club at impact and the ball will fly lower yet roll longer.

    Playing the ball ahead in my stance just the opposite..

    I can see you play real golf...so you do know it's not possible to make "top spin" but just "less spin"

    Even a draw shot does not make TS (IRL) just less spin that allows the ball to fly lower with less spin then turn over as it hits the fairway (hopefully) as opposed to a high fade say, that lands softly with minimal roll out.

     

  • MBaggese
    15,367 Posts
    Fri, Jun 22 2012 1:11 AM

    pjctas0822:
    Yep . Dont know why the average doesnt go up after so many rounds . That makes no sense. 

    The way it used to be pj, was the best 10 of last 14 scores posted, made your average.

    Sand baggers realized that after 10 good rounds just shoot 14 80's, and start with a high average again.

    Then go shoot another 10 60's in RG's clean up from forward tees, reload with starter balls and back to the 80's.

    Now the SB's just hang around for MP games and Skins games untill they have a bad streak and enter a RG, post well to build up credits again, then back to MP and Skins.

  • sarak362336
    1,597 Posts
    Fri, Jun 22 2012 1:26 AM

    Averages - I can see why they are set up for below legend tiers as it encourages people to progress and stops sandbagging to a certain point.

    However once u reach Legend it doesnt matter any more and would make more sense to take an average of the last 200 ranked rounds played - this would move up and down according to scores posted.    This would reflect a players ability better and only embaress those who choose to manipulate their average.

    Just a thought.    Sara 

    (Proud to be a Legend)

  • MBaggese
    15,367 Posts
    Fri, Jun 22 2012 1:33 AM

    sarak362336:
    This would reflect a players ability better

     

    I totally agree Sara.

    I shoot sub 30 one in 5 maybe, and sub 60, 1 in 20.

  • MUSTAQBAL1
    270 Posts
    Fri, Jun 22 2012 7:45 AM
    i aree sara. once you reach the top tier, then what is there to sandbag? once you reach the top tier, then your average should be based on whatever you post in stroke play rounds. q
  • mkg335
    5,491 Posts
    Fri, Jun 22 2012 8:26 AM

    MBaggese:

    With a driver think of it like this...

    Playing back in my stance I have delofted the club at impact and the ball will fly lower yet roll longer.

    Playing the ball ahead in my stance just the opposite..

    I can see you play real golf...so you do know it's not possible to make "top spin" but just "less spin"

    Even a draw shot does not make TS (IRL) just less spin that allows the ball to fly lower with less spin then turn over as it hits the fairway (hopefully) as opposed to a high fade say, that lands softly with minimal roll out.

     

    Exactly.  A ball with topspin cannot become airborne.

  • mara43
    1,674 Posts
    Fri, Jun 22 2012 10:40 AM

    G0LD:
    So my idea of an upper legend tier, called champion, for sub-60 legends, with farther and harder hole locations, and championship greens (to be considered also is the easy option of turning certain par 4's into par 3's, and certain par 5's into par 4's), paired with equipment upgrades, makes logical and practical sense. The fact remains, however, that the calculation of the scoring average urgently needs to be improved, to better reflect the real skill level of players, and prevent the absurd promotion of some of them to upper tiers where they do not truly belong.

    +1^^^

  • DAZZA501
    5,972 Posts
    Fri, Jun 22 2012 11:01 AM

    I don't think turning par 5's in to par 4's can be done as the tournaments are done on what score you shoot. A 60 is a 60 whether it be -12 or -10.

    Personally i think there should be 2 more tiers. 1 for Legends average between 57-60 called Tour Legend and a Champion tier for sub 57 Legends. Everyone seems to say sub 60 is the mark it should be but there's a big difference between the 59.95 legend and a 55.00 legend.

    Tour Legends: Legend tee's & Champ greens

    Champions: Longer tee's(if it can be done) & Champ greens

  • Infinito3010
    3,689 Posts
    Fri, Jun 22 2012 12:49 PM

    A little food for thought.  Perhaps WGT should adopt two systems, once a player reaches the standing of Legend then a handicap system should be implemented and your stats should reflect the last 400 rounds.   I have played 6700 plus rounds, and those stats are not indicative of my play.  Just saying.

  • genorb
    1,255 Posts
    Fri, Jun 22 2012 4:02 PM

    Creating new tiers for legends is very nice to make more legend players competitive. Of course it creates more opportunities for sandbagging. But if we forget for the moment this potential problem and focus on making more player competitive then two new tiers should be created (the gap between players with 55-57 average and players with an average around 60 can still be large).

    The proposition of Dazza looks interesting. The question is who should enter these new tiers. If you create a tier with players that have an average below, let says, 57 then it is safe in my opinion to use the current average as a measure. Most, if not all, players in this group can be competitive. Some are just a bit more regular, but everyone would have a chance to win or at least to make decent results. But doing so you will miss some players who should be part of it (see below).

    But for the second tier for players let says between 57 and 60, this is much more problematic. You can easily have an average below 60 while not shooting that low quite often while others with a similar average are shooting low quite often. It's just a matter of how much you play. Take Hanswurst72 as an example. He has an average of 59.22 but clearly he is one of the bests. So he should be part of the top tier. This is just because he is not playing that much (500 ranked rounds) otherwise his average would be sub 57 easily.

    So clearly, creating new top tiers is a good idea but, beside creating new sandbagging opportunities, it's not easy to know who should be in a given tier. And that's important to avoid frustration (if you are in a tier with too strong players) or unfairness (if a too strong player is in a tier he doesn't belong to).

    Regards

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