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St Andrews Wind

Sat, Sep 24 2011 9:30 AM by xbnkrbrkr. 20 replies.
  • Tresclub United States
    406 Posts
    Wed, Mar 10 2010 3:08 PM

    In light of Andyson's aerial photo of this course, I thought I'd play a round in the Wk 11 9-Hole Unlimited play tourney, and keep track of the wind direction. Wind condition is heavy.  Here is what I saw:

    Hole 1:  26mph at 6:00 (in my face)

    Hole 2:  29mph at 1:30

    Hole 3:  26mph at 12:00

    Hole 4:  24mph at 12:00

    Hole 5:  28mph at 3:00 (L2R)

    Hole 6:  26mph at 12:00

    Hole 7:  26mph at 4:00

    Hole 8:  23mph at 7:30

    Hole 9:  30mph at 3:00 (L2R)

    If the wind is in my face on the first hole, and the course is pretty much in a straight line up to the 8th hole, why does the wind do a complete about face from #2 to #6?  At hole #5, if the ocean is on our right, shouldn't that 28mph wind be blowing R2L?  Hole #7 is also wrong  for the same ocean location reason.  Hole #8 appears to be correct since the course changes direction 180º on this hole.  Hole #9 is correct because the ocean is now on our left.

    Just wondering.

    Warren

  • jakestanfill7 United States
    862 Posts
    Thu, Mar 11 2010 7:42 AM

    Wind direction is completely random from one hole to the next by design.  There has been some discussion of giving the wind more continuity so the prevailing wind you see on your first hole would be from the same direction as you turn into and away from it depending on course design.

    I did play St Andrews this week and think I had a wind bug, but if the course is indeed straight all the way out the wind mirrored that.  I had a 29 mph wind from 10oclock to 4 on every single hole.

  • YankeeJim United States
    7,782 Posts
    Thu, Mar 11 2010 7:54 AM

    I saw a tip a while ago where back spin on the driver enhances the roll after landing. Does this apply to strong tail winds? Better asked-how does the spin affect the ball in high winds?

  • BolloxInBruges United States
    1,002 Posts
    Thu, Mar 11 2010 8:48 AM

    Random wind is pretty much necessary.  For example, I glanced at that google earth shot of st andy and almost all of the front 9 goes in 1 direction.  Who in their right mind would continue on with this weeks 9 hole unlimited tourney if they drew a headwind on their first shot?  That would mean basically your entire round into the wind.   So everyone would be sitting there restarting on the first tee until you get tail to shoot 24 driving damn near all the par 4s.

    Or for another example, it would be pretty unfair in the st andrews ready go if you drew a headwind for your entire 9 vs someone who had all tailwinds.  Knowing how brutal longterm variance can be from over a million hands of poker tells me that someone could easily  draw headwind rounds 70% of the time over the course of a year if they played that RG every single day.

  • andyson United States
    2,388 Posts
    Thu, Mar 11 2010 9:14 AM

    Warren, thanks for taking the time to record the winds and post them.  I've seen the same consistency of direction on 2,3 and 4 and then nothing makes sense from then on.

    I overlaid your wind directions for each hole on the aerial photo and it really shows clearly how unrealistic the wind changes are.  There would need to be a tornado spinning thru the area to get those wind shifts IRL.

    On top of that, I found a website, Windfinder,  that gives the probability of wind from any direction at St. Andrews, in any month.  Its based on 10 yrs of historical wind direction data from 7am to 7pm.  Surprisingly, to me,  the dominant wind at St. Andrews is from the West, an onshore wind heading out to sea.  Maybe I'm surprised because I'm an inland guy.  Only in May does an East wind dominate, all other months its from the West.

    I added the probability of winds in the direction you saw during the month of July, when The Open is held. In general, at St. Andrews in July the winds are from these directions:

    Northerly (NW to NE)  7.5% of the time.

    Easterly (NE to SE) 29.5%

    Southerly (SE to SW) 12%

    Westerly (SW to NW) 42%

    The probability of you getting wind in July from either the S or SE is 4 out of 100.  You got those 4 times in 9 holes!! 

    Not only are the wind changes unrealistic, but the wind directions are unrealistic.  I'd bet you could play St. Andrews every day for a lifetime, maybe even 10 lifetimes and never get those same wind directions.  Another way of saying it, hitting downwind on 3 and 4 happens IRL 2 out of 100 times.

    If WGT is striving for realism we will never get the true feel of playing St. Andrews without the wind reflecting real life instead of randomness.

     

     

     

  • YankeeJim United States
    7,782 Posts
    Thu, Mar 11 2010 11:43 AM

    BB makes a huge point . Each hole, by itself, represents a wind condition that could occur-it's not unrealistic. That said, you're looking at 9 different views of the wind conditions. A random assortment of genuine conditions which is about as fair as you can make an open tournament.

    Fascinating research, andy.

  • WGTniv United States
    1,788 Posts
    Thu, Mar 11 2010 11:59 AM

    Interesting discussion here fellas.

    Currently the winds you see are randomized to prevent folks from continually reloading the first tee until they get a favorable wind direction/speed.

    In the future we will be offering more realistic course conditions for tournaments, so that's something you can look forward to. =)

  • andyson United States
    2,388 Posts
    Thu, Mar 11 2010 12:07 PM

    Obviously for a tournament there would need to be just one general wind direction which could turn one way or another thru a round or even change speeds somewhat.  But everyone would have the same wind on every hole.  That IMO is more fair than random on each hole where some lucky stiff might draw favorable winds on them all.

    Thanks for that info WGTNiv.  I would be nice when you step on the first tee and the wind is from 1:30 to 7:30 at 35mph, that 5 is going to play as the par 5 it was meant to be.

  • duffer66 United States
    607 Posts
    Thu, Mar 11 2010 12:34 PM

    The current wind at Leuchars Air Base is 280 at 14kts. I got this info from the real weather program that I have for MS flight simulator. I can check the wind every day by inserting the airport code EGQL in to the program and it will give me the current weather for any time of day I select. Now I need an airport near Kiawah Island and then I can get the conditions there as well.

    It would be really cool to have real weather at the courses and I don't think it would be that hard to link the above mentioned weather program to WGT.

  • VanHalenLover United States
    1,422 Posts
    Thu, Mar 11 2010 12:42 PM

    good point andyson,

    realistic winds would be awesome hole to hole, but the important part is to make the winds the exact same for each player on each hole.

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