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IRS attack - the WHY behind it.....

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Fri, Feb 19 2010 12:49 PM (9 replies)
  • jayjonbeach
    689 Posts
    Thu, Feb 18 2010 10:02 PM

    Obviously what this guy did was totally wrong right?  Or was it.....

    From a very young age I too knew what this guy found out oh too well to be true and I often thought one day if things go too far I would do something about it (though it was vastly different than his idea). 

    Well this poor soul did just that and for many of the same reasons that also make me angry and with all the bailouts of the greedy crooked and incompetent companies with the honest everyday tax payers money, who could argue that things havent gone too far.  The AIG bit, that was the real twist of knife in the back that was. 

    A true shame it took something like this to get his message "out there" and worse that it probably will have no effect. 

    Here is his letter that he posted on the web before he did the terrible deed, and believe me I dont condone what he did at all, bad stuff no question, its just that the government in general, well read it if your interested, I agree with pretty much everything he says.

    http://la.indymedia.org/news/2010/02/235156.php

    Seemed like a very intelligent honest hard working fellow who just wanted to get ahead to me.

  • NormH3
    214 Posts
    Fri, Feb 19 2010 7:14 AM

    Your "poor soul" murdered at least one innocent human being. Something that your post and your link fail to mention. To even consider what he did to be "right" is absolute nonsense.

  • jayjonbeach
    689 Posts
    Fri, Feb 19 2010 9:22 AM

    I did mention that I didn't "condone" what he did at all and that it was indeed very bad.

    However I'll bet you didn't read the letter otherwise you might understand why I called him a "poor soul".   Just a victim of the corrupt system is all he was.

    Your probably right though, the person in Texas probably was innocent which is crappy, most of the real crooks that deserve that plight (or at least jail which would never happen thus his actions) reside in Washington.  They're ever bit deserving as Madoff and then some. 

  • NormH3
    214 Posts
    Fri, Feb 19 2010 9:44 AM

    I did read his letter as well as a bit more research. Some of his tax problems apparently were a result of his wife not claiming some income. Whether he was wronged by the government or not, that's no excuse for destroying other innocent people's lives.

    I'm also a little disturbed by the site you linked to. By the looks of things, they are obviously using this event to propel their agenda.

  • jayjonbeach
    689 Posts
    Fri, Feb 19 2010 10:14 AM

    Hmmm never bothered to look at anything else on that site, looking now I really cant even tell what the hell that website is even for, so much gibberish everywhere.  Here is another that seems to have the full text of the letter as well:

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/35461747/ns/us_news-life/#storyContinued

    Wronged by the government?    Is there really anything right the government has done or does?

    See I think you missed one of the main points of his letter as have many people from looking around a bit, though some are calling him a hero.  This wasnt just about a lousy 12K that he didnt claim for his wife for whatever reason.  The system itself is BROKEN, and to make matters worse for him and many others they specifically screwed engineers even more with some dumb clause they put in back in 1986.    There is so much wrong with America and society in general that it could hardly fit into the text of one internet blog post.   The stock market crash was just the first warning and reality check, theres more to come I'm sure. 

    As I alluded to already, it is questionable whether or not anyone in the IRS was innocent, I'm sure most and maybe even all of them were, maybe not. 

  • SweetiePie
    4,925 Posts
    Fri, Feb 19 2010 10:56 AM

    The reality of true human behavior indicates that with certain ingredients the human being is capable of almost anything. When any human reaches a certain point of hopelessness coupled with long simmering anger that suddenly become rage, the recipe is completed and the behavior takes on a violent form. And yet all humans have the capability for this unfortunate transformation. It is homemade, irrational justice.

  • OaktheToke
    409 Posts
    Fri, Feb 19 2010 11:15 AM

    Jay, this man should not be championed.  He is a coward that chose to take the easy way out and intentionally cause harm to innocent civil servants, or anyone that happened to be in that building at the time of the crash for that matter.   As well as abandoned his own family in a time of need, leaving them strapped with the debts of his own failures.

    Regardless of the actions of the US Government, an individual or group does not have any just cause to reek havoc in the lives of innocent bystanders.  Those very actions destroy any credibility to arguments in their favor.   This such thinking is the type that propels certain acts of terrorism.  

    Our Government has become not one run by and for the people, but one run by and for corporate benefit.  Its the corporations that have the largest percentage of wealth and choose to spend a large percentage of said gained wealth to ensure that their benefits are met, protected, and even developed.  Do I like this evolution of the system?  No.  But I'm not willing to cause harm to or take the life of another to prove or draw intention to the injustice.  And its not just the US Govt, global political systems are becoming more and more corrupt as wealth grows within public and private corporate entities with the chief purpose of growth and preservation.

    This man is not a martyr is any sense of the meaning.  He was a troubled individual that reached a breaking point with his own sanity.

  • jayjonbeach
    689 Posts
    Fri, Feb 19 2010 12:00 PM

    Yeah I never called him a hero but some on the net are since he took action for what he thought was right instead of just doing nothing, like most do.

    JIC no one caught it, I never said he was right in what he did, I just asked the question to cause a discussion  :)  

    Was he, I guess so far no one here thinks so.  My opinion, if truly innocent people were in the IRS building, then, I would agree, what he did had no positive effect what-so-ever and was in fact the opposite.  (and like I mentioned I'm sure most or even all of them were but who really knows)  What I did say was I agree with all the things he wrote about in the letter, hes bang on and he left out tons of stuff to boot. 

    Reading his letter I'd hardly call him insane, true I'm not a professional and didnt know the guy but it seemed clear to me why he chose to take his own life, he felt he had no other way out other than work the rest of his days until an old cripple and death just to pay more taxes, he was never going to retire and he couldnt live with that simple truth.  Not to mention in this economy, he was having trouble even finding work and it was much lower paying.  He mentioned the true definition (or one of them) of insanity in his letter, "doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results".   Well for anyone that read the letter they will see that the guy worked his whole life, went to school, etc, just to basically have nothing and in the end, have the IRS come breathing down his neck.   His conclusion was simple, after 55 years of doing that and getting no where, nothing going forward was going to change so he chose not to keep doing the same thing. 

    Your right though Oak, it was mostly a cowardly thing to do, taking the easy way out and I only found out today about his poor family he left behind, very sad indeed. Was there really another solution though for a 55 year old engineer who had nothing and basically no prospects to get anywhere?  This is not the first guy to take his own life due to piled up debt and wont be the last.   I honestly dont know what he could have done to help himself, if he had the schooling, experience etc to get work and still couldnt.   Even if he waited the economy out I guess he just thought he would always be fighting an uphill battle to which he would never win. 

    I know one thing, if I went through his same plight of spending years in school and thousands and thousands of dollars on it and then working my ass off only to give away most of it back to the government in one way or another and then have the economy collaspe so getting work is even harder and not as profitable to only then watch the government bail out all the crooks who caused the problem with the honest peoples money instead of helping the honest people, I know if in that boat I too would sure be frustrated and angry in a very big way and probably feel hopeless too. 

    Like I said I'm NOT condoning what this guy did in any shape or form, could have been my wife or kid in that building no question and maybe there was some other kind of solution for him.  I just wonder if other people were in his shoes and went through the same path in life, what they would do instead. 

  • Doublemochaman
    2,009 Posts
    Fri, Feb 19 2010 12:43 PM

    Just thinking out loud here:  Maybe politics and golf don't mix.

    Personally, I'm a very political guy.  Head definitely not buried in the sand.  But no chance I'll share where on the political spectrum my beliefs fall.  I like to keep it that way.  My neighbors don't even know... I never do yard signs (though I've been tempted).  And I never do forums unless I'm in a political forum.  I do baseball in baseball forums.  Wine tasting in wine tasting forums.  Golf in golf forums.  However, on a side note, go Mariners!

  • jayjonbeach
    689 Posts
    Fri, Feb 19 2010 12:49 PM

    Hehe yeah politics down there is a pretty volitile subject, much more so than in Canada and I think people are on more extremes than here too.

    I dont blame you for not discussing it, I wouldnt either.   Even here for the most part I dont and really I just try to ignore as much of it as I can as its just far too frustrating to follow. 

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