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Relevancy of protecting Average

Tue, Jan 26 2010 2:54 PM (15 replies)
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  • NormH3
    214 Posts
    Tue, Jan 19 2010 9:06 AM

    I have been playing for a month now and made it to the PRO level in a reasonable amount of time. I have purchased equipment and believe they were well worth the few dollars that I have spent here. All in all, despite the occaisional hiccup, it seems to be a good value. Like most, I am looking forward to playing new venues when they become available.

    What I don't understand is the relevancy of protecting ones own average.  Once you reach the next  tier there is no amount of bad play they will demote you to the former level. Am I missing something, or is this just an ego thing for some players?

  • Faterson
    2,902 Posts
    Tue, Jan 19 2010 9:25 AM

    It's definitely the ego/vanity thing for those Master-tier players who behave like this, but for Pro players, it's far more: it's their desire to attain the Master tier as fast as possible, disregarding one's true playing skills. The Master tier gives you various perks, such as Master-only equipment, participation in prestigious Master-only tourneys, etc. The fastest way to get to the Master tier, of course, is to quit every bad round you have, and only record the good scores. There are no safeguards on WGT.com against proceeding like this all the time, so that a player's average score here on WGT.com is next to meaningless.

    For half a year now, I've been participating in the League Tables tournament, and what I love about this tourney is that it requires everyone to post real scores only, and there's no way to quit a bad round and not record the bad score. Suddenly, you see how human all the players are: Masters or Pros. It's not uncommon, in that tourney, to see Masters with low 60s average scores post rounds in the high 30s or even low 40s. If this were also required for every round here on WGT.com, not only in an off-site monthly tournament of 5 matches, the players' average scores on this site would be radically different (and by that I mean a lot higher), and the number of players in the Master tier would be significantly reduced (cut by half or more, very likely).

  • YankeeJim
    25,827 Posts
    Tue, Jan 19 2010 9:40 AM

    Then there's the sandbagging issue..............

  • marioh
    1,055 Posts
    Tue, Jan 19 2010 9:55 AM

    It's kind of like the ricers who glue a hood scoop unto their little Honda civic.

    All show, no go.

    If you want to see the majority (but not all) of top players, look at the career earnings.

  • Faterson
    2,902 Posts
    Tue, Jan 19 2010 10:02 AM

    marioh:
    If you want to see the majority (but not all) of top players, look at the career earnings.

    That's mostly US rankings, considering that most other countries of the world have been excluded from most tournaments where significant prizes were awarded, and these exclusions (on a rather irregular and unpredictable basis, it seems), although on a diminished scale, continue today. WGT must be credited, however, for the recent efforts to make as many tournaments as possible accessible for all international players.

  • marioh
    1,055 Posts
    Tue, Jan 19 2010 10:07 AM

    That's why I said the majority.

    Plus there are some really good players who never participated in tournaments in the past, despite being able to do so.

  • jayjonbeach
    689 Posts
    Tue, Jan 19 2010 10:20 AM

    marioh:

    It's kind of like the ricers who glue a hood scoop unto their little Honda civic.

    All show, no go.

    If you want to see the majority (but not all) of top players, look at the career earnings.

    And put the obnoxiously loud and very annoying mufflers for no reason......  Spend the money on a real motor or car you turkeys!  

  • NormH3
    214 Posts
    Tue, Jan 19 2010 10:51 AM

    Perhaps people don't realize that one or two bad rounds do not really affect their average all that much. I shot 2 rounds of +12 this past weekend and saw only a minute change for the worse. As far as wanting MASTER quickly, part of the fun is getting there.

  • salamii
    1,058 Posts
    Tue, Jan 19 2010 3:44 PM

    Faterson:

    It's definitely the ego/vanity thing for those Master-tier players who behave like this, but for Pro players, it's far more: it's their desire to attain the Master tier as fast as possible, disregarding one's true playing skills. The Master tier gives you various perks, such as Master-only equipment, participation in prestigious Master-only tourneys, etc. The fastest way to get to the Master tier, of course, is to quit every bad round you have, and only record the good scores. There are no safeguards on WGT.com against proceeding like this all the time, so that a player's average score here on WGT.com is next to meaningless.

    For half a year now, I've been participating in the League Tables tournament, and what I love about this tourney is that it requires everyone to post real scores only, and there's no way to quit a bad round and not record the bad score. Suddenly, you see how human all the players are: Masters or Pros. It's not uncommon, in that tourney, to see Masters with low 60s average scores post rounds in the high 30s or even low 40s. If this were also required for every round here on WGT.com, not only in an off-site monthly tournament of 5 matches, the players' average scores on this site would be radically different (and by that I mean a lot higher), and the number of players in the Master tier would be significantly reduced (cut by half or more, very likely).

    Mr Faterson,I agree with most of what you say. I believe at least 50% of the masters do not belong in the master tier.

    But something has me confused, the Ladder's sight was created to avoid the quitter's, play amongst your peers to improve your avg's  to attain master status.

    Why are there so few true masters emerging from the ladders sight.  I may be wrong but it seems most Ladders pro's prefer to stay at that tier.  It would be interesting if you could come up up with a few numbers. Total number of Ladder players and what percentage of them have made it to master tier in the last 3 months.

    May I also state this is not an attack against you or the ladder community.

    Thank You.

    Sal.

  • Faterson
    2,902 Posts
    Wed, Jan 20 2010 9:56 PM

    salamii:
    I may be wrong but it seems most Ladders pro's prefer to stay at that tier.

    Yup, you're definitely wrong.    The Ladders site is completely dominated by top-quality Master players. I can see exactly 7 Pros in the current Ladder 9 Top 50, and only 2 Pros in the Top 25.

    I'm certain that the best Ladder site players are as good as any WGT players anywhere. Everyone can easily, with modest time investment, prove this supposition wrong by joining one of the Sunday It's a Knockout tournaments. You "only" need to win 5 or 6 nine-hole rounds in a row, on one Sunday, to prove that you're better than everyone else there, but this would be extremely difficult or impossible to do, even for Tibbets or AvatarLee, especially if both of them enrolled at the same time, of course , because every It's a Knockout can only have one winner on every Sunday.

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