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WGT should fix Showdowns, here's why

• Mythanatos 2,203 Posts

  Mon, May 11 2020 8:10 AM

  WGT you're losing money or at least not making what you could.

  The Expert level of showdowns is becoming a desert. 

  Less and less people each month want to play it when they know they have a decent chance of getting glitched 3 bogeys. and it's unrecoverable if it happens in round 1 or 3.

   

  Also the prize credits need to be raised. 1000 credit entry by all players and the top prize should be 20-25k not the 10k that it is. 

  Veteran 100cr entry 2500 top credit prize. 25x the fee.

  Lastly when it comes to the expert group just about anyone can win on any given week. What it boils down to is who probably got the best combination of variables.

  There are too many variables. I get varying wind direction so that people can't talk and give yardages within a club etc.

  But you HAVE to standardize wind strengths and green speeds. 30mph winds on st andy makes scoring more difficult. light winds makes st andy one of the easiest courses in the game.

  And while at it should standardize the pin placement during a showdown. Some pins are significantly more difficult than others on the same green. Pebble 8 is a perfect example.

  So like a tournament you want to vary the wind direction fine. Make everything else the same variables to make it more of an even playing field.

  OR keep doing what you're doing. more players are quitting Expert and stopping totally or dropping down to lower tiers to play every month.

   

• bossbird 2,192 Posts

  Mon, May 11 2020 9:32 AM

  Sorry , I am going to disagree with most of what you have said , though I am sure I will be shot down in flames , guess what I am used to it. 
  Right at the start WGT said we would all get the same courses , not in the same order or the same conditions , so they did say it wouldn’t always be exactly the same .
  Personally I think it’s a good thing that we stand up in the competition on our own merit , not on what someone else has leaked to you about the conditions , pin placements etc, as this gives too many advantages to too many players.

  The glitches of course are unacceptable and should be sorted before anything else now , after so many showdowns with the same problems , but I guess WGT have been trying to deliver the new format to pc customers and that must have taken a lot of work.

  The price for the expert competition will always preclude a lot of players given that it takes so long to earn those as free credits with the current limits in place. It’s not rocket science that the expert group will be less frequented as a result.

  Finally , you talk about the upper two groups , but the fact that tour champs and champs regularly frequent and wipe the floor in the rookie group also brings controversy, and needs to be looked at. 
  The fact that I have commented here does I know lead me open to all sorts of criticisms, but you know what , sometimes it’s worth saying , none the less. With everything going on at the moment , let’s remember we all have the choice of playing or not , in real life those choices are not always ours to make .

   

• MattMaher35 518 Posts

  Mon, May 11 2020 4:13 PM

  Mythanatos:

  WGT you're losing money or at least not making what you could.

  The Expert level of showdowns is becoming a desert. 

  Less and less people each month want to play it when they know they have a decent chance of getting glitched 3 bogeys. and it's unrecoverable if it happens in round 1 or 3.

   

  Also the prize credits need to be raised. 1000 credit entry by all players and the top prize should be 20-25k not the 10k that it is. 

  Veteran 100cr entry 2500 top credit prize. 25x the fee.

  Lastly when it comes to the expert group just about anyone can win on any given week. What it boils down to is who probably got the best combination of variables.

  There are too many variables. I get varying wind direction so that people can't talk and give yardages within a club etc.

  But you HAVE to standardize wind strengths and green speeds. 30mph winds on st andy makes scoring more difficult. light winds makes st andy one of the easiest courses in the game.

  And while at it should standardize the pin placement during a showdown. Some pins are significantly more difficult than others on the same green. Pebble 8 is a perfect example.

  So like a tournament you want to vary the wind direction fine. Make everything else the same variables to make it more of an even playing field.

  OR keep doing what you're doing. more players are quitting Expert and stopping totally or dropping down to lower tiers to play every month.

   

  And I on the other hand agree with every point you made. Exactly why I play veteran and not expert.

• BOZskills 392 Posts

  Mon, May 11 2020 5:19 PM

  Bird,i agree with alot of what you said. I think some of what the op is complaining about is called rub of the green. Of course we all agree the glitches are unacceptable! My personal issue is with the champions and tour champions playing in the veteran and even more embarrassing rookie showdowns. Have some stones,step up to the competition,instead of being mercenary! If i was a tour champion(doubtful i'll ever make it),i'd be embarrassed to do that!

• Mythanatos 2,203 Posts

  Wed, May 13 2020 8:22 AM

  so to clarify:

  the two people that disagree. Have never played in the Expert showdown?

  But they do both complain about the champs and tour champs playing in the lower tiers.

  But they didn't comprehend that I told them why it happens??

• el3n1 4,494 Posts

  Wed, May 13 2020 8:53 AM

  Mythanatos:

  so to clarify:

  the two people that disagree. Have never played in the Expert showdown?

  You do know, people can look at your profile and see that you have not played in an Expert showdown yourself.  Should we then feel your view is any less valid?  Not necessarily.

  It may not dismiss your concerns but using statements while you yourself do not show having participated in the Expert division comes across wrong.  

  Yes, I would say the Veteran division plays just as competitive as the Expert because many top players are not going to waste 1000 credits when there are known bugs/glitches so the Veteran division is just as competitive as the Expert division. 

  The Veteran also has a wider range of skill levels in a lower entry fee coin room, where they are likely to face even more players who will get frustrated and quit, forfeit, WD prematurely that impacts possibly initiating the bugs that occur because far more people can afford 10k in coins across a much wider range of skill levels.  

  If anything, the Expert - isolate themselves slightly but not completely from experiencing the random WD because fewer people enter the 100K room willing to just throw the coins away, unless they stumble in their not realizing they lose their forward tee advantage and then realize they are out of their league/skill level.

  That said, it doesn't dismiss your concerns, but it doesn't undermine their concerns either.  There are multiple layers to the issues involved and the goal should be to help sort them out to improve the event.  

  Otherwise, yes... more people will sit them out.

• bossbird 2,192 Posts

  Wed, May 13 2020 9:02 AM

  I read and understand English , so I comprehend what you are saying , I just don’t agree with everything you have said . I don’t agree that conditions on the course have to be entirely the same for everyone , its swings and roundabouts , as it is in each competition, rookie too. You may feel you you have had the bum deal in one match but will probably benefit in another. I also think it is better that reporting back to other players on pin positions and wind conditions is Not a good thing.  we should all play individually without input from the advice or knowledge of someone who has already played. 
  The main point I absolutely do agree on is that the glitches particularly when an opponent forfeits and the remaining player is disadvantaged must be sorted out.

  You are correct , I have not played in the Expert league , why would I when I know I am not good enough to do so !Are you saying that then precludes me from making comments on champs and tour champs regularly  playing in the rookie league ? If so where is democracy? My views are just as valid as yours. 

   

• BPeterson8256 2,907 Posts

  Wed, May 13 2020 9:16 AM

  BOZskills:

  My personal issue is with the champions and tour champions playing in the veteran and even more embarrassing rookie showdowns. Have some stones,step up to the competition,instead of being mercenary! If i was a tour champion(doubtful i'll ever make it),i'd be embarrassed to do that!

  I love playing against the best in the game, but don't feel the need to spend 1000 credits to do it. Just like Ready Go and Bracket tournaments, these tournaments are open to play. If they were meant for lower tiers only, then the higher tiers would not be allowed to sign up. Additionally, coin rooms are a different game than regular tournaments. I have played against lower tier players that are fantastic players and would easily move quickly up to the higher tiers if they played ranked rounds frequently. 

  In this last showdown, the veteran group I was playing in was loaded with top talent. I am a pretty good player, but have never won in the veteran group. I think one of my friends that is much better than myself didn't even crack the top 50, or if he did it was barely. I am guessing like many other players, it is partially due to the fact that he is coming to coin rooms for the first time, having been a Flash player for the last several years. 

  For myself, I played in the rookie division a couple times when I first switched from flash to PCEA. Throw a 45 second clock at me. and I was horrible at this format even though I am a TC. I have been beat by players from virtually every tier in 3 hole matches. Once I got use to the format and got my first showdown win, I started playing veteran for a better challenge. I doubt I will ever play in the Expert division at that price.

• Mythanatos 2,203 Posts

  Wed, May 13 2020 9:17 AM

  el3n1:

  You do know, people can look at your profile and see that you have not played in an Expert showdown yourself.  Should we then feel your view is any less valid?  Not necessarily.

  I explained exactly why. Every single point I made are valid reasons why champs and tour champs don't play expert or have dropped out of it. Plus you have no idea how many conversations I've had with people who have made the same choices i have for the same reasons. Bellagio people are a small group. Even tho I don't play nearly as much as i used to I still know a ton of the people. 

  I'd be in there every month but it's just downright foolish to do so now.

   

  Either way I see no reason to have to cite my sources when every point is an issue. I tell you what. Do this. Fmags dropped down to veteran this go round. Why don't you message him and ask him why.

  I was having a conversation with a fellow Bellagio player and they were the ones that told me he dropped down and why. They had apparently met in a previous round.

  Everything I've said has come from not just my opinion but multiple conversations with some of  the best mobile players in the game. I play and have played with these guys for years. You haven't.

  The numbers in expert will continue to drop. 

  They need to boost the prize pool to be commensurate with the lower tiers %s. and even the playing field and absolutely number 1... fix the bogey glitches.

• el3n1 4,494 Posts

  Wed, May 13 2020 9:38 AM

  What did I write?  I pointed out we should not necessarily dismiss your concerns just because you haven't played Expert...You really think I am oblivious of your experience or contacts?  You have shared it more than once and I have highlighted your expertise within our club.

  But, you chose to use that point of participating in Expert as a qualifier to dismiss the concerns or points made by others.

   I was just suggesting, in maybe a round a bout way, you be more considerate of others who are just as likely to have valid input that can be taken into consideration.

  It does not dismiss your concerns, but sometimes you can come across far more abrasive than you need to and I didn't want others to notice or pick up on that nuance as though it discredits your points either -- and I indicated you have valid concerns.  

  But you also answer your own question.. The smaller # of entries into the Expert do not warrant an increase in the prize pool because the entries do not even come close to supporting the type of payouts you suggest. 

  WGT has dropped payouts in nearly all events when the participation does not warrant the previous payouts.  We saw it awhile ago with the big monthly tournaments.  Why would showdowns be any different?

  The bigger issue - is resolving the bugs... people are not going to risk playing in the most competitive and highest entry fee division, while there are bugs or nuances that limit a fair competition - which is along the same lines of some of your concerns.