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New and have some questions

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Fri, Mar 13 2020 11:34 AM by alosso. 39 replies.
  • Tony08888 United States
    259 Posts
    Sun, Feb 23 2020 3:04 AM

    Glad I could help Mark.

    To qualify my reply and to Roberts point, when I say “compete” I’m not referring to competing against some of the best players on here in high stakes tournaments. 

    I’m talking about CC tournaments, Ready-Go’s, CCTH games, and having the equipment to play the game well in general.

     

     

  • Robert1893 United States
    5,714 Posts
    Sun, Feb 23 2020 6:23 AM

    Tony08888:
    I’m talking about CC tournaments, Ready-Go’s, CCTH games, and having the equipment to play the game well in genera

    I still think you're incorrect about ready-go's. With that equipment and at the higher tiers, a player will not be competitive. One of the best threads ever on the cost of ready-go's is by el3n1. See this thread:

    http://www.wgt.com/forums/t/577439.aspx

    A player not only needs to have the best equipment, but one also has to consider the cost of balls. If a player is below Legend tier, the clubs you mentioned are fine. Above that, better clubs are required for the overwhelming majority of players. 

  • Tony08888 United States
    259 Posts
    Sun, Feb 23 2020 6:56 AM

    Robert1893:

    Tony08888:
    I’m talking about CC tournaments, Ready-Go’s, CCTH games, and having the equipment to play the game well in genera

    I still think you're incorrect about ready-go's. With that equipment and at the higher tiers, a player will not be competitive. One of the best threads ever on the cost of ready-go's is by el3n1. See this thread:

    http://www.wgt.com/forums/t/577439.aspx

    A player not only needs to have the best equipment, but one also has to consider the cost of balls. If a player is below Legend tier, the clubs you mentioned are fine. Above that, better clubs are required for the overwhelming majority of players. 

    Definitely gives a new perspective for the ready go’s. I still defend the set up listed for the mid 80{s. It’s a great upgrade and for many that’s where the upgrades stop.

  • el3n1 United States
    3,161 Posts
    Sun, Feb 23 2020 7:35 AM

    Some kind of radar must have gone off... I stumbled into this thread, where surprisingly something I worked on was referenced. : )  I do hope it helps others ...

    I can't find it at the moment, but I also posted a chart in the forum on "coin rental gear" which in some cases, especially mobile players using sponsor apparel can delay club purchases early on to save up credits while they reach the higher levels.

    I feel Robert and Tony both made good points... and possibly focusing on slightly different player skill sets ...

    Robert is correct in that the average player will likely need higher end gear to compete at the higher level, whereas Tony is also correct in that a highly skilled player using the equipment in the L85 range could also be competitive up to a certain point with their peers.  If you doubt the quality of the L85 clubs in that series … look at the scores by elite players being posted in the etour event with those very clubs.

    So the clubs can be played competitively up to a certain point depending on the skill set of your peers.  I see some Tour Legends and even higher that never upgrade their L85 Cally irons because they tend to know those clubs very well.  

    The challenge with playing the L85 irons, it becomes almost mandatory to play a higher end ball in order to do so.  Ball cost being the single greatest ongoing expense is something to consider.  Hence the Ready Go cost chart.

    Ultimately.. higher end clubs allow you to play a slightly cheaper ball than the lower end clubs, but there are still instances where you need to upgrade your ball.  I tried to follow Fmagnets example in this regard to save credits.  He plays a cheaper L61 ball for 500 credits whenever he can, but for courses like Chambers Bay with heavier winds and Champ 13 or Champ 14 greens you see him play the L93 TM ball which is 250 credits more.  

    If you are playing countless rounds and using multiple sleeves those ball cost add up over time.  I estimated I saved over 4000 credits last year by using a L13 Srixon on mobile playing coin games because the sponsor apparel allows my clubs to play better... hence save the cost by lowering the ball I play.  

    This gets tricky though, changing balls, it means you need more notes and it means you needs to pay attention to how distance and spin factors can alter in different wind conditions.  That can be more challenging than sticking to one ball all the time... but I still recommend playing the best ball you feel comfortable playing competitively because it can effect your ROI if you go into ready go's.

    Sorry for rambling, but just wanted to touch on how I felt both of you were correct and share a couple insights maybe of my own.

     

  • Robert1893 United States
    5,714 Posts
    Sun, Feb 23 2020 7:56 AM

    @ed

    Great summary and well said. 

  • Tony08888 United States
    259 Posts
    Sun, Feb 23 2020 8:28 AM

    Thanks Ed.

    Something occurred to me. Robert, you and I are coming from two very different viewpoints.

    You are a Level 111 Champion and have been playing for 5 years. it’s probably been nearly as long since you’ve seen sub-100 levels. (Much respect)

    Whereas, I’ve been playing since March of last year and a Level 94 Legend, I am closer to Mark in that regard and it wasn’t very long ago I was using those mid-80’s clubs with Cally 33 balls. Since that combo got me to Legend, this feels like sound advice for folks approaching the 80’s and looking for a decent upgrade. 

    If I could do it all over again, I wouldn’t have upgraded again until the upper 90’s level, but the upgrade bug got me.

    Good debate though, iron sharpens iron!

  • Robert1893 United States
    5,714 Posts
    Sun, Feb 23 2020 8:49 AM

    Tony08888:

    Thanks Ed.

    Something occurred to me. Robert, you and I are coming from two very different viewpoints.

    You are a Level 111 Champion and have been playing for 5 years. it’s probably been nearly as long since you’ve seen sub-100 levels. (Much respect)

    Whereas, I’ve been playing since March of last year and a Level 94 Legend, I am closer to Mark in that regard and it wasn’t very long ago I was using those mid-80’s clubs with Cally 33 balls. Since that combo got me to Legend, this feels like sound advice for folks approaching the 80’s and looking for a decent upgrade. 

    If I could do it all over again, I wouldn’t have upgraded again until the upper 90’s level, but the upgrade bug got me.

    Good debate though, iron sharpens iron!

    I’m not disagreeing on the recommendations of equipment. I’m simply disagreeing that the average player, which most of us are, will be competitive in WGT tournaments with that equipment. On that point, I think we need to pump the brakes a bit and temper the expectations of anyone reading these posts. 

    And a few years ago is not that difficult for me to remember. We’re not talking decades here. 😀 
     
    Edit: By the way, I had the level 85 irons. They’re fantastic. I often recommend them. But I think the Scotty Cameron Level 70 is a much better choice for putter. Except for the Level 98 putter, it’s the best one in the pro shop. Indeed, one could buy that putter and never have to upgrade.  

  • Tony08888 United States
    259 Posts
    Sun, Feb 23 2020 12:55 PM

    And a few years ago is not that difficult for me to remember. We’re not talking decades here. 😀 

     

  • Robert1893 United States
    5,714 Posts
    Sun, Feb 23 2020 1:43 PM

    I always liike that picture of me. Now...

    😀

     

  • DodgyPutter United Kingdom
    3,618 Posts
    Sun, Feb 23 2020 3:03 PM

    el3n1:
    Some kind of radar must have gone off... I stumbled into this thread, where surprisingly something I worked on was referenced. : )  I do hope it helps others ...

    I think it was very good of you to do this and share it.  I play mostly rg's and have never, at least for any great length of time, seen my credit balance climb so I completely agree with the basic thrust. So appologies for being a little bit picky on a detail.

    The balls I use cost 500c and I did work out that finishing 5-10 in a 50c 18 hole rg would make a slight profit over ball use.  I think the difference is the number of hits per round, you use 38 from a projected score (around 62?) that you think would make the top 10.  I thought the score doesn't really matter (for hits not top 10) as that's in large part down to the (not counting) putts. As regulation is two putts per hole then the number of hits is 34 on a par 70 course.  On a 72 it would be 36 but most of these have holes that can be reached in under regulation.

    If you think of your 38 hits and 18 single putts that would be a 56, -14.

    Anyone planning to use this to make credits from rg's would also need to take into account a couple of things that most will think obvious but I'll say anyway.

    "The players" don't make a profit in rg's, wgt get 20% of the entry and the other 80% is distributed among them.  So the aim is to enter rg's where you have a chance of being one of the "winners".

    Clearly the lower the stakes the less "winnings" there are to offset the ball cost but nobody finishes top 10 or 15 every time and when that happens at least you've only lost a small entry fee, or half of it, in these rg's.

    The lower stake rg's are easier to get a top 10 finish in, the higher the stakes the better the players you will be competing with.

    This may be more contorversial in context but for anyone thinking of trying rg's I'd say go for it but try the new very low, 10c and 25c, stake ones and see how you do there first.  Forget ball usage, if you want to play this game at all that's going to happen.

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