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When does WGT blink out?

Sat, Nov 7 2009 7:45 PM by Richard4168. 21 replies.
  • PDO999 United States
    Fri, Nov 6 2009 11:41 AM

    It’s a valid question.  WGT has had two rounds of funding so far … appx. 4-5 million in April 2007, another 9-10 million in May 2008 (1).   I suspect its coffers are starting to get a bit empty.

    Revenue probably isn’t up to expectations, either.  As of May 2009, WGT claimed 250,000 players.  Only 5% of them ever buy anything from the pro shop … 95% of all players pay nothing … and that revenue stream accounts for two-thirds of its income (2).

    What would a venture capital company consider when deciding to invest more money into WGT?  Here’s what I would look at:

    ·         Has the site demonstratively improved over the last 18 months?  From looking at the comments in the forums, the same complaints seem to be mentioned over and over again.

    ·         Is the site’s revenue stream becoming sufficient for the site to be profitable?  Judging from the IV Holdings Blog, only 5% of the 250,000 players buy anything from the site.  Let’s say 15,000 players buy $75 of clubs, balls, etc. a year.   That’s only  1.125 million a year.  That’s not enough.

    ·         But the biggest question is … would a VC like to fund WGT in light of having new competition from Electronic Arts?  I’m thinkin’ no.

    Regardless of how you feel about TWO vs. WGT in terms of playability, realism, etc., you have to realize that EA doesn’t just complete in this genre … it dominates.

    My predictions …

    ·         EA will miss its Q4 2009 target … I think they will come up live Q1 2010.

    ·         WGT will never come out of beta without securing some more funding within the next six to nine months. 

    ·         With the worst VC environment in some time (3) and EA’s entry in the mix, it gonna be a tough sell to gain any additional funding.

    And without any new funding …

    WGT blinks out.

     

    (1)    Inside Social Games, “2008 Funding for Games & Virtual Worlds Totals Just Under $1 Billion”, 5/7/2009

    (2)    The IV Holdings Blog, “Ad Revenue on the Web?  No Sure Bet”, 5/25/2009

    (3)    Austin American-Statesman, “Venture funding lowest in 6 years”, 10/13/2009

     

     

     

  • SweetiePie United States
    Fri, Nov 6 2009 12:40 PM

    That was at best, a WAG. What is a WAG? Wild Assed Guess. No one with true finacial savvy would risk any kind of prediction, if their reputation was on the the chopping block, in the current economic enigma.

  • TarheelsRule United States
    Fri, Nov 6 2009 12:52 PM

    While I think that the time line is a WAG, the facts are that the numbers don't add up.  Having worked with many venture capitalists in the past, I can't see where they will get the funding to continue past mid 2010.  I believe that I have seen the number of $250K just to photograph the sites for one course.  Add that on top of the development and maintenance of the  site and you have big bucks.  I think that the real hope here is that one of the other gaming companies buys this from the current owners, or at least liscenses it for true play.  I enjoy the game but I'm glad that I don't have any money in the development of it.

  • Faterson Slovakia
    Fri, Nov 6 2009 1:35 PM

    PDO999:
    Has the site demonstratively improved over the last 18 months?

    Absolutely! Not only over the last 18 months, but over the last six months as well. Let me remind you of the ground-breaking August 13th product upgrade. That was a milestone. Folks enjoy bitching and moaning, but they easily forget about the good things they are given. Let me only say: multi-player on any course, full-screen mode, clubs sellback, match-play.

    PDO999:
    the same complaints seem to be mentioned over and over again.

    Some yes, and others not. Before August, we used to get 5 redundant forum threads every week asking, "Why can't I play multi-player anywhere else except on Bethpage Black, Front 9?" There are no such complaints today, obviously.

    That being said, I agree with you WGT may fold & disappear from the Internet if it fails to find sufficient support, no matter from what source. I already witnessed, live, the demise of another online golf game approximately 10 years ago, PrizeGolf. The dotcom bubble burst, and suddenly the sponsors withdrew their support from PrizeGolf. Two years later, PrizeGolf was only a memory. Imagine Ping and TaylorMade pulling out of WGT.com – I'm afraid the site wouldn't survive much longer without them.

    Let's keep our fingers crossed that none of this ever happens.

  • Richard4168 United States
    Fri, Nov 6 2009 2:11 PM

    The execs at WGT need to set up a time to meet with PGA representatives, and pitch the game. Anythings possible. If there's a will to get a PGA endorsement, there's a way. Think outside of the box.

    WGT has a lot of neat things coming up, to be implemented in the game for the short term. WGT golf isn't going anywhere soon guys and gals, it's a solid game, Right?

    The PGA is definitely endorsing the wrong game, that's for sure. This game sells itself. 

  • tibbets United States
    Fri, Nov 6 2009 2:44 PM

    Here is a look at some traffic reports for the site.  Peaked around the US Open, been tapering downward since then.

  • Richard4168 United States
    Fri, Nov 6 2009 6:39 PM

    Those stats are grim looking at best tibbet's, and that's a shame. WGT golf is a good game in a whole array of aspects. Maybe there's an audience out there that hasn't been discovered yet.

    I was just curious tibbet's, do you have a defining stake in TWO? or are you showing a legitimate concern for the demise of WGT in your writing?

    Don't take this the wrong way tibbet's, but you sure are quick to post a stat, or tell a story in so many words about how WGT is tanking when someone writes about making WGT a better game and experience. Am I wrong in my analysis? 

    I'm not looking for a fight tibbet's, just an intellectual debate on the facts.

    Kind Regards,  

  • tibbets United States
    Fri, Nov 6 2009 7:50 PM

    Gee, where to begin?

    I guess I'll start out by saying that I don't give a darn about TWO or its success.  EA Sports is its own giant and has a huge corner on the market when it comes to sports games.  Even if they put out a halfway decent product, they'll do fine with revenue.  My experiences over there were pretty good, not great, not awful.  The best part about it, surprisingly, was the ability to chat to developer personnel in real time while I was playing the game, giving and getting feedback.  They knew who I was, in terms of being the top gun over here at WGT for a long time, and they really seemed to value my input.  I say I'm surprised by that because they are such a huge gaming giant, and I never expected that such a giant would be so active and transparent with its development.

    That being said, we move onto WGT.  Now, I've been playing some form of World Golf Tour game for nearly 2 years now.  I've spoken personally many times with the co-founder, and many of the staff over the years.  The relationship used to be a good one, but over the course of the last year the business practices here have become terrible in my opinion. 

    I get little to no response to the feedback I provide, and it's not a stretch or a boast to say that no one has played this game more than I have.  I've questioned the direction that they have taken on many occasions and given them fair warning as to the consequences of being so secretive and non-responsive to legitimate and factually based concerns and questions of their patrons.

    For instance, for months there was an issue with the 7 irons not functioning properly.  If you do a search for 7 iron you'll find the threads I'm referring to. At any rate, so many of the players agreed, noticing the exact same problems.  Error report after error report got filed not just by me, but by so many of the top players here.  After months of no response, I finally took it upon myself to video 16 or so consecutive clips of the 7 iron malfunctioning on both courses, and sent them in to WGT via email.  The response?  "Oh, we'll have to look at this on the test server and see if we can duplicate your results.". I mean, come on, this had been going on for months and months and only now they were getting around to looking at it on the test server?  What was the point of all of those error reports that had been sent in? I am the test server, hello?  A few thousand shots with a 7 iron....yeah, I think I know when it's not working right.

    Being treated like some noobie who doesn't know anything about the game when in fact the very opposite is the case is pretty bad business.  If anyone knows when something becomes out of whack with this game, it's me.  I've played so many rounds through all of the changes they've undergone, and I'm talking upwards of an additional 1200 rounds beyond the 1250+ I've actually recorded,  that I can tell when things aren't working.  My continued success at this game speaks for itself, it's not just about having a good clicker-finger you know.  I know the game.

    So now, what do I get from WGT?   Emails that go unanswered.  Telephone calls that go unanswered.  Bug log threads that go unanswered, like here, and here, and here, and here.  One of those is almost 6 months old and has been bumped 3 times.  Meanwhile I watch the forums everyday and the admins replying instantly to some topic that has been replied to in some shape or form dozens of times over.  It's quite ludicrous, and as I stated above, it's very bad business.  If you look at those bug reports I listed above, they happen to cover quite a bit of the operation of the game.  They aren't some obscure minor details to be trifled with and ignored.

    I was asked to play this Beta, be involved in the forums, point out the errors, help guide other players, and I've done all of that.  However, for my observations and opinions  I've been ostracized, attacked, and hung out to dry in more ways than I'm even allowed to speak of without being banned.  It's no way to treat any player, never mind your virtual poster boy for the game.

    So, I'm still here, doing what I do, playing and testing the game, pointing things out as I see them, helping people along on occasion.  Fortunately there are other good people on this site who are equally adept at helping new players out, and am happy to share the load. 

    This game is in Beta, and I am the most experienced Beta tester they have.  It's not the job of a Beta tester to blow happy smoke rings about things, it's our job to try and break the game and/or point out where it is broken.  There is more in Beta than just the testing of the game itself, however.  This is a massive undertaking involving social networking, forum administration, developer transparency and interaction, tournament organization, ranking systems, etc.  You can see for yourself that in many of those areas, it is clear that the administration here are very new and inexperienced at how to manage those elements.  I've pointed out those shortcomings as well over the years, and as I said above, for that I am a virtual outcast.

    Make no mistake about it, I want this game to succeed, i always have.  So many of us have wanted to be more involved in the game, but we've been held at arms length and given virtually no information as far as transparency with development.  It's been suggested to them to sign non-disclosure agreements to do advanced Beta testing before product is released.  Nope, they don't want it.  We're the Beta team, but we can't know what the plan is?  We can't talk to the developers themselves and provide real-time examples of our observations?  That's really not a good idea at all, in fact it's a terrible way to develop something, and helps explain why things move at a snails pace around here.  This isn't National Security, it's a golf game.

    Part of the learning curve for them must be to learn from mistakes, and I can honestly say how I've been treated is a mistake. My continued presense here on the forums, what I write about, and the criticism/critiques I give are all direct consequences of those mistakes.

    So if you sense a sour tone to my posts, you'd be correct in doing so.  I'm not giving up on the game nevertheless.  I enjoy playing it and will continue to so long as I'm not banned out of existence.  I still am here to do Beta testing, to point out glitches and bugs and flaws, to give my input as to how the game could be made better, etc.  If my suggestions and reports fall on deaf ears, then so be it.  Just don't expect my loyalty and 2 big thumbs up for WGT if that's how it's to be.

  • Richard4168 United States
    Sat, Nov 7 2009 8:11 AM

    Point taken tibbet's. Shame on WGT for not acknowledging all of your efforts. Ultimately, the demise of WGT lies in there own hands. If WGT blinks out, it will be the fault of the executives of this entity. The people are certainly doing all they can to ensure playability. Maybe it's poor management at WGT?

    I applaud you, and everyone else's efforts at WGT, for trying to make this the best game possible. Maybe you can still keep a good rapport with the players at WGT by conveying a friendlier tone in your writing, and lay aside all past misunderstandings with the people, while interacting with those who seek advice from a master of the game.  

    In addition to your comment tibbet's, it sounds like your testing services at WGT could no longer be needed, or maybe being phased out. It's just an analysis, that's all.

    Some food for thought.

     

  • TheLighterDark United States
    Sat, Nov 7 2009 10:16 AM

    Tibbets you're absolutely correct, the only threads I ever seen being answered by the staff are the "Where's my stroke play courses?" and other questions that have a pretty rhetorical answer.



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