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avg score to reach champion tier

Wed, Jun 26 2019 5:58 AM by middbrew. 69 replies.
  • Robert1893 United States
    5,142 Posts
    Mon, May 20 2019 11:52 PM

    alosso:

    Sorry to contradict you.

    They do not count towards the average, but they have always been counted as ranked rounds when they appear in the score history, and they have always counted towards any other statistics.

    I'm not saying they don't count as ranked rounds in stats. I know they count there. I'm saying they don't count as ranked rounds for the 500 rounds needed for saturation. 

    In other words, as I read the other person's post, it seemed to me that he was suggesting that those rounds, while not counting for average, still counted in terms of reaching 500 rounds at Legend tier. They don't. They're also excluded in the counting against the 500 ranked rounds needed. 

    It's a slight distinction. But maybe I misread what the other person was suggesting. 

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  • WWilliams46 United States
    83 Posts
    Tue, May 21 2019 3:47 AM

    Robert1893:

    patfrenchy:

    Hi Don & John

    Thanks for replies.

    I sent a mail to wgt, hoping i will get the exact rules.



    They won't reply with the exact criteria. I'm guessing here's the closest statement you'll ever get from WGT.

    http://www.wgt.com/forums/p/217899/1562306.aspx#1562306

    WGTadmin

    We use an algorithm to determine when a player is eligible to move to a new tier, which takes into account a number of factors including number of ranked games played.  These numbers scale by tier, so as it's necessary to shoot a lower average to advance and to play more games to reach higher tiers.  For example, when you reach Tour Master, you will need to play a larger number of ranked rounds than you had as a Master, maintaining a low average, to tier up to Legend.

    Additionally, in response to WGT player feedback about sandbagging (misrepresenting one's true ability to gain advantage by playing at a lower tier from closer tee boxes), WGT is  using more than just ranked stroke play scores to determine each player's average score and appropriate tier ranking.

    For obvious reasons, WGT is not sharing exact details of these changes, but they include factoring in scores from players who perform well in tournaments and challenge games for credits. We still encourage the community's feedback on Sandbagging, but believe this is an important step to reducing the practice and keeping the game fair.

     

    I realize this is an older post but the troubling part about this statement for me is that WGT factors in scores from players who perform well in tournaments and challenge games for credits.  This seems to suggest that if you spend more money you may advance faster.  SHOCKING !!   WGT will reward you for spending more money !!  For the record, not all players like to compete in ready go's etc. so we have to progress the snails pace way.  I personally as a champion at this point have to shoot a 28 to drop my average .01 and a 26 only drops it .03.  (or 56 - 52)  It will be a long tome before I get to TC apparently unless I spend more money since I prefer not to play in the so called "average busters" for the most part.  There are some CC tourneys that will mess with tees and conditions to switch things up and try to put you in positions you are not normally in however most of ours are custom courses that do not count toward averages anyway.  Please excuse the sarcasm but remember, it's a game and WGT is a business geared to making money !!!

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  • MaDch Switzerland
    7 Posts
    Tue, May 21 2019 5:18 AM

    Robert1893:

    I'm not saying they don't count as ranked rounds in stats. I know they count there. I'm saying they don't count as ranked rounds for the 500 rounds needed for saturation. 

    In other words, as I read the other person's post, it seemed to me that he was suggesting that those rounds, while not counting for average, still counted in terms of reaching 500 rounds at Legend tier. They don't. They're also excluded in the counting against the 500 ranked rounds needed. 

    It's a slight distinction. But maybe I misread what the other person was suggesting. 

    The difference is those (p3, p5, custom) rounds DID count towards saturation but no longer DO. This is what I believe has changed recently.

    I can‘t think of an other explanation for averages suddenly going up again after they only went down for almost a hundred rounds in my case. And apparently this hasn’t only happened to me.

    And just to clarify: I‘m not complaining about it, just arguing something must have been changed by WGT. As mentioned in my first post I think this should have been like this in the first place. I only wish they‘d make the distinction in the stats as well.

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  • Robert1893 United States
    5,142 Posts
    Tue, May 21 2019 6:23 AM

    WWilliams46:
    I realize this is an older post but the troubling part about this statement for me is that WGT factors in scores from players who perform well in tournaments and challenge games for credits.  This seems to suggest that if you spend more money you may advance faster. SHOCKING !!   WGT will reward you for spending more money !!  

    That's not the way I view it.

    It's not simply that they entered the tournament (i.e. paid the credits). As you note, the players also had to perform well. Basically, WGT is "protecting the field" by trying to prevent sandbaggers. In other words, WGT is advancing the better players so that those players are competing against better competition. 

    If WGT was truly rewarding players for spending money, then everyone who entered paid tournaments would be rewarded or advanced and not just the players who performed well in those tournaments. 

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  • BPeterson8256 United States
    647 Posts
    Tue, May 21 2019 6:33 AM

    Robert1893:

    That's not the way I view it.

    Me neither, but that is probably a generational thing. Perhaps WGT should start handing out participation trophies and finisher medals. ;-)

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  • alosso Germany
    19,347 Posts
    Tue, May 21 2019 7:18 AM

    WWilliams46:
    the troubling part about this statement for me is that WGT factors in scores from players who perform well in tournaments and challenge games for credits. 
    True.

    WWilliams46:
    This seems to suggest that if you spend more money you may advance faster.  SHOCKING !!   WGT will reward you for spending more money !!
    Not true.

    The "reward" = tier promotion comes from WINNING credits in tournaments and matches and from WINNING matches against higher tiers.

    The first has been reported here many times, "I went to bed as a Tour Master and woke up as a Legend" - promotion in absentia when a tournament payout happened.

    The second, I confirm from my own experience - I became Legend after beating two Legends in two match plays of a CC battle. These dropped my average by 1.4.

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  • DodgyPutter United Kingdom
    3,384 Posts
    Tue, May 21 2019 8:26 AM

    alosso:

    WWilliams46:
    This seems to suggest that if you spend more money you may advance faster.  SHOCKING !!   WGT will reward you for spending more money !!
    Not true.

    The "reward" = tier promotion comes from WINNING credits in tournaments and matches and from WINNING matches against higher tiers.

    I'm not sure, it depends what wgt think of as "winning".  If I pay 100c to enter a rg and my placing in it means I get 100c wgt congratulate me on "winning 100c".  Of course I didn't, I just didn't lose it this time. 

    As I like playing rg's I enter quite a lot of them and have a decent amount of earnings, I still need to top up my account every now and then to keep playing.  What I'm meaning is, it's probably true I'm buying earnings/winnings.

    I would add I've never been promoted other than by ave and rr's.

    Similar with matches against higher tiers unless it's measured by win %, which I doubt, the more you play the more likely you are to win some.

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  • Robert1893 United States
    5,142 Posts
    Tue, May 21 2019 9:04 AM

    MaDch:
    The difference is those (p3, p5, custom) rounds DID count towards saturation but no longer DO. This is what I believe has changed recently.

    OK. That's what I understood you to be saying. 

    And I'm saying that was not my experience in 2015 when I tiered up to Legend. At Legend tier, none of those par 3s or par 5s were included in the number of ranked rounds for saturation. 

    At Legend tier, I saturated when I reached 500 rounds of only those scores that counted for average. And I kept spreadsheet of all of my Legend-tier rounds that counted for average. 

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  • Robert1893 United States
    5,142 Posts
    Tue, May 21 2019 9:07 AM

    MaDch:
    This is what I believe has changed recently.

    I should have added that the only thing I know that's changed is the saturation number for Tour Legend. That number is now 750 rounds where it used to be 200 rounds. 

    I'm not aware of anything changing for saturation at Legend tier. 

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  • CFitzgerald1292 United States
    20 Posts
    Tue, May 21 2019 11:12 AM
    people create the eassiest courses with no wind forward tees and easy hole locations in the country clubs then they score them i can shoot sub 60 all the time if i wanted only score games with random winds and conditions
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