skip nav

Forums

Cheaters kicked out?

Sun, Mar 24 2019 1:16 PM by DoctorLarry. 238 replies.
  • DodgyPutter United Kingdom
    3,237 Posts
    Tue, Jan 22 2019 3:03 PM

    Heath021:

    Some folks get affected while others don't. Just look at the money earned every month. ITs the same players and has been forever. I have never lipped out so many putts that I have  within the past week. The wind on some of these tournaments is always against me...can't even reach some par 4's that I usually do...Yet I look at the scores and I see a 52...LOL. To perfectly play every round is absurd. Never ever withdrawing because of VEM. Having an average after the update so now it effects every round and see being at almost a 52...REALLY! That skinny dweeb that I would love to see in public sometime always wins.

    The update that saw TC come in was the 19th Dec, the person you're talking about plays about 10 rounds a day and it takes 200 to saturate so I'd guess it stopped being a real average about 130 rounds ago.

    Digg
    Delicious
  • el3n1 United States
    2,335 Posts
    Tue, Jan 22 2019 4:44 PM

    Heath021:
    Some folks get affected while others don't.

    Perceptions are not reality, but they do color our view of things... 

    While I haven't watched every single round the top players have streamed, I have seen and observed quite a few.  They too have shots like the rest of us and I recognize their names at the top of the money list as well..

    Some claim VEM doesn't exist or is  not turned on, others claim it is... I am not sure what to describe it as... but I agree there are rounds and shots that clearly appear to be effected by some other quotient/factor that alters the shot beyond what we would expect to see for normal variance.  I heard one theory that the size of the hole is shrunk on the greens making it harder to make putts.  Maybe I should get one of those fancy gizmos you see and measure the cup every time down to the number of pixels... LOL... I don't know though...

    Based on my observations from watching top players play... I try to guess how they will hit the shot to see how closely I am to how they actually play it... then I watch how the shot plays… when you see a WGT/WTF shot that clearly puzzled them to the extent they had to comment verbally or swirl the mouse and then watch a replay because it just didn't come off the club as they expected, you know something was off

    Top players know their clubs and ball combination so well... they know almost exactly what to expect... so when a shot doesn't come of as planned it makes sense they too seem perplexed… whether they would attribute it to VEM or some other WGT gaming component/factor/algorithm, I can not say... but they were clearly perplexed based on what I observed.

    You are not alone in this experience, but the terminology used to describe it seems to be up for debate... 

    I tend to believe the game creates natural swings such that our scores will ebb and flow, similar to real life.  No one plays perfectly every round and while some players make a point to never WD.  The best players also tend to be more resilient and capable of making the most of their bad rounds so even if they don't win a ready go, they still get credits back or break even.  Sometimes if you watch … there are so many WD in some ready go's that what we consider crappy scores get some credits out of it...

    Problem is, most people raise their expectations so high if they aren't going absurdly low they give up and WD even though they would likely still get some credits back... 

    Amazing after all these years... this topic still seems to get people worked up... you would think most would adapt and overcome after awhile...

     

    Digg
    Delicious
  • Jimbog1964 Guernsey
    8,338 Posts
    Tue, Jan 22 2019 8:16 PM

    el3n1:
    Amazing after all these years... this topic still seems to get people worked up... you would think most would adapt and overcome after awhile...

    Now too many moons ago I played in the annual fathers golf day for the football club my two sons were in.

    One "fun" hole was for the longest drive.  In the best spirit I just wound it up and thrashed away.  Could have gone anywhere but this time it finished bang centre 430 yards down (slight down, got a kick and slight breeze behind and out of the very centre).

    Little did I realise a chap had won it two years on the trot and was leading before that with a good one.  He could not bring himself to stay for the dinner.  Had someone told him the clubs are all designed to just sometimes limit something, could you imagine.....

    The following year I wound it up just the same and topped it 20 yards away LOL..........  

    Digg
    Delicious
  • MBaggese United States
    15,226 Posts
    Tue, Jan 22 2019 10:15 PM

     

     

    Lifes too short...lol!

     

     

    Digg
    Delicious
  • pdb1 United States
    20,061 Posts
    Tue, Jan 22 2019 10:40 PM

    DoctorLarry:
    For a couple of weeks this year, I went through exactly what you described as " I have never lipped out so many putts that I have  within the past week. The wind on some of these tournaments is always against me...can't even reach some par 4's that I usually do".  Seriously, I played one of my favorite (easy) par 5 holes (CB#8) multiple times those weeks (as a 1-hole game to make sure the CDP kept going) and got relatively strong headwinds about a dozen times in a row.  It did not matter, since the 1-holer did not affect anything but the CDP/XP but it was frustrating.  I lipped out putts, etc, over and over, in other play.

      Perfect example of the happenstance that everyone encounters . Some may luckily avoid those times more than others .

      The VEM is much more subtle .

      IE :Lower levels have a wider sweet spot . To make more shots . To keep it interesting .Higher players have a smaller sweet spot . To challenge them more .

      The upgrade process entices equipment sales .

      That's it in a nutshell .

    Digg
    Delicious
  • WGTChampion United States
    1,352 Posts
    Wed, Jan 23 2019 9:28 AM

    I've had some time to go over the stuff pizza said and it's actually in line with what I was told when I asked about it when I started. 

    So let's break it down. 

    WGTPizza:

    No, VEM is a crucial system within WGT. I can understand the confusion surrounding this subject, so I sat down with the CEO (and owner of the patent) and he helped me decipher the legalese so that I may share it with you.

    Essentially, the patent is for legal protection. It does give us the right to change the properties of clubs and balls, which we do often, but mainly it is for protecting the legal side of WGT. Whenever we exercise our right to change clubs and/or balls given to us by this patent, we do so unilaterally, and we tell the community about it. The only reasons we would do this is for balancing or bug correcting purposes.

    VEM is an every day feature of WGT. When I called him a "mountain of wrong", which is a fun thing to say, that was in response to something he said where it doesn't get used at all. It does get used, but not in some evil "we're breaking your game until you pay us" kind of way.

    WGTPizza:

    Now, back to the question that keeps coming up "Does WGT have the capability to manipulate individual player's equipment?" The answer is yes, we have the capability to do nearly anything to anyone, any course, any time, anywhere. The next question you should ask is "Does the video game I play operate in such an underhanded way that they would practice this capability?"

    Well of course we can change how the game works, the balance of a club, or just remove it all together. Every game that's been created since the ability to update via the internet can technically remove an item, or change the balance of the whole thing. Technically VEM could have the ability to screw up everything, but that's not what it's programmed to do. 

    Almost every game you've ever played has what they call RNG, or random number generator, what RNG does is simulate randomness. I've recently been playing a game called Dark Souls, and one of the things that RNG does in that game is randomizes an enemy's attacks. So last night I kept dying to the same boss, and each time I walked into the boss area the boss would hit me with a different attack than the time before. This is a simple example of RNG. In other games it may be enemy placement or hit point variance and things like that. 

    In many competitive online shooters RNG may be used to help a player who has died many times in a row to help them defeat an enemy. It's not a huge change, but it may give a little DPS boost to their gun or change an enemies damage area. 

    Okay so how does this translate to VEM? 

    VEM is in place to help, not to hurt. If a player is playing poorly VEM will kick in and do slight corrections. It's not going to save a ball aimed at the water, but it may give a small forgiveness boost to help. On the other end it's not going to make a terrible putt magically go into the cup. 

    Once the player begins to play a little better VEM will drop out and the player will be on their own again. 

    VEM does NOT target any specific player to make sure they lose a ball or have a bad round. It's quite the opposite. VEM is here to help. 

    Does this help explain some stuff? 

    _CHAMPION 

    Digg
    Delicious
  • ct690911 Canada
    6,115 Posts
    Wed, Jan 23 2019 9:51 AM

    " It's not going to save a ball aimed at the water, but it may give a small forgiveness boost to help. On the other end it's not going to make a terrible putt magically go into the cup. "

    Many players have noted that shots even a hair off the ding seem to routinely find the water...same for putts. The many lip outs I have seen and been subjected to...oi vey. These were not "terrible" putts and they could have easily gone in...

    ...not sure is VEM is responsible, but it sure didn't seem to help either.

    just sayin'

    ct

    ps. TY Champion for taking the time to type your response. You are one of the few mods who regularly engage with us players, and it is appreciated.

    Digg
    Delicious
  • el3n1 United States
    2,335 Posts
    Wed, Jan 23 2019 9:52 AM

    WGTChampion:

    Does this help explain some stuff? 

    _CHAMPION 

    Yes, thanks for taking the time to hear the concerns and thoughts, not to mention take the time to respond! 

    While I have pondered more involved questions, I doubt you or WGT would be able to disclose much more in detail.  So, I am grateful for what you have been able to share.  

    Thanks again!

    Digg
    Delicious
  • DodgyPutter United Kingdom
    3,237 Posts
    Wed, Jan 23 2019 10:32 AM

    WGTChampion:

    Okay so how does this translate to VEM? 

    VEM is in place to help, not to hurt. If a player is playing poorly VEM will kick in and do slight corrections. It's not going to save a ball aimed at the water, but it may give a small forgiveness boost to help. On the other end it's not going to make a terrible putt magically go into the cup. 

    Once the player begins to play a little better VEM will drop out and the player will be on their own again. 

    VEM does NOT target any specific player to make sure they lose a ball or have a bad round. It's quite the opposite. VEM is here to help. 

    Does this help explain some stuff? 

    _CHAMPION 

    The vem patent can easily be found using the search box but here is a small part of it.

    Sorry if I'm getting you wrong but are you saying the part where it decreases the sweet spot (or forgiveness or whatever) is turned off but where it increases the sweet spot is on?
    Another surprising suggestion in your post is shoot a load of bad scores and the game will help you.  Surely that's open to manipulation, hit a starter ball all over the place for a few rounds and then play your VT round for example.
    Thanks for trying to help, I do appreciate it,  and sorry if I'm being a pain.

     

    1. A computer-implemented method, comprising:

    receiving user input directed to manipulation of virtual equipment in an interactive computer game, the virtual equipment being manipulated through the user's interaction with an associated representation;
    determining a change in a user's skill level for interaction with the virtual equipment in response to the received user input; and
    adapting a virtual equipment model having one or more variables associated with the virtual equipment to reflect the determined change in user skill level, the virtual equipment model governing how the virtual equipment behaves in response to the user's interaction with the representation, and where the adapting comprises:
    1. if the change indicates that the user's skill level has increased, decreasing a sweet spot for a variable of the virtual equipment model; and
    if the change indicates that the user's skill level has decreased, increasing the sweet spot for the variable of the virtual equipment model,
    where the sweet spot is an area of a curve for the variable where the area is based on a degree of deviation from an ideal value for the variable.
    2. The computer-implemented method of claim 1, where values above a threshold for the variable have a great probability of causing a successful game outcome than values below the threshold.
    3. The computer-implemented method of claim 1, where increasing the sweet spot increases accuracy of the virtual equipment and decreasing the sweet spot decreases the accuracy.

    Digg
    Delicious
  • DodgyPutter United Kingdom
    3,237 Posts
    Wed, Jan 23 2019 10:41 AM
    oops
    Digg
    Delicious
RSS