Forums

Tiger, isn't this getting out of hand?

• Snaike 3,678 Posts

  Sat, Sep 12 2009 3:19 PM

  mrboo:

  He is not rude to other players, and has very good etiquette towards the course and competitors.

  MrBoo... I will agree with many of your points... but not this one.

  Tiger is EXTREMELY rude to his fellow golfers.  It has been mentioned in numerous tournaments, most recently the Open that YE Yang won, that Eldrick:

  • always stands where his opponent can see him, on Sunday, with his blood red shirt.
  • moves during backswings and pressure putts
  • cusses and curses at even the smallest distraction when ~he's~ swinging, but doesn't allow his partners the same scenario

  Even the commentators of the golf world (those with out their noses shoved so far up his derriere that they can tell what he had for dinner last night) have started to call him on this.

  I didn't believe it at first... until I saw the winning putt that Yang made last month.  There he is, standing over the birdie putt for the win... everything is still, nobody is making a sound, Yang pulls the club back to stroke the ball and everyone freezes...

  Except Tiger.. who starts to walk toward the hole BEFORE contact was made.

  It's on youtube if you don't believe me... check it out.

• drivnchaos 286 Posts

  Sat, Sep 12 2009 3:20 PM

  I'd have to say, with his performance at the BMW Championship today, that he has many more good years ahead of him. I think it comes down to his focus and enjoyment. He really looked like he was having a good time out there today, and his play reflected that.

• Faterson 2,902 Posts

  Sat, Sep 12 2009 4:51 PM

  Snaike:

  I didn't believe it at first... until I saw the winning putt that Yang made last month.  There he is, standing over the birdie putt for the win... everything is still, nobody is making a sound, Yang pulls the club back to stroke the ball and everyone freezes...

  Except Tiger.. who starts to walk toward the hole BEFORE contact was made.

  Balderdash! Although he did move, he was behind Yang's back, so he couldn't possibly have interfered with Yang in any way.

  I'm also pretty certain, having watched the scene many times, that Tiger only moved after Yang hit the ball, not before.

  As to why he moved, that is pretty clear: to disrupt Yang's moment of glory; that much looks certain. But he may have done that involuntarily, too. (Movement of one's body as a physical gesture of rejection of what was about to happen in a fraction of a second, namely the successful putt and the loss of Championship.)

  Be that as it may, there was no disruption to Yang's play on this occasion. It's no good to exaggerate in obviously biased ways when criticizing Tiger.

• Snaike 3,678 Posts

  Sat, Sep 12 2009 5:21 PM

  How very sad.  I never pictured you as a 'jock-sniffer'.  Well, a few moments with the search engine, dear Faterson, and you will end up with gems such as:

  This one ...

  outside link:

  IMO anyone related to golf is afraid to make ANY negative comments about King Tiger because I think he is very petty and CANNOT take criticism. In the past Tiger has allegedly stiffed analysts who were simply doing their jobs and critiquing his swing.
  
  To be honest I think Tiger acts like a bully under the veil of being golf's great gentleman. I am shocked that so many people still think he is a gentleman.
  
  All you have to do is watch one tournament and observe his lack of etiquette on the course (foul mouth, club throwing, stare downs, leaving the putting green as his playing partner is putting). I think his etiquette has been appalling for years and he is still considered exemplary . . . probably because people will be cast as racist if they criticize his behavior.

  And this one, from the BBC:

  BBC:

  The Tiger Woods hype needs to stop. He is great but he is not a God.
  
  Also his lack of etiquette is sickening. It's almost disgusting watching him at times. He is like a baby. It's like he hasn't grown up yet.

  And this one...  from the Catholic Church no less:

  Inside Catholic:

  They spoke of your lack of "decorum" and "etiquette," your "visible display of temper" and use of profanity, none of which should be excused by your much-vaunted competitiveness, because "you still have to behave."

  And the very best of all... Rick Reilly himself calling out Eldrick here...

  Rick Reilly:

  This isn't new. Woods has been this way for years: swearing like a Hooters' bouncer, trying to bury the bottom of his driver into the tee box, flipping his club end over end the second he realizes his shot is way offline.

  Still think it's just me, Faterson?  Put your deductive skills to work and open your eyes. 

  Bottom line.. Eldrick is a very very good golfer.  Eldrick is very philanthropic, charitable and magnanimous off the course.  On it, he is a bully and his act is wearing out.

• Vardon 50 Posts

  Sat, Sep 12 2009 5:27 PM

  I do agree that he can get a little mad at times, but at the end of the day he shakes hands with his opponent, does interviews, and just seems to be so polite.  He's just so intense, which he feeds off of when he plays.  I'm the same way when I play in tournaments around my area.  I only punish myself and ever unleash my anger on my fellow competitors.  And after the round I congratulate my opponents.  That's how it goes and I see nothing wrong with it.

• Faterson 2,902 Posts

  Sat, Sep 12 2009 5:41 PM

  Hahaha... Snaike, is that so difficult for you to say, "I was wrong"? I'm no Tiger fan; I don't care about him in particular.

  I was only reacting to one specific (and quoted by me) part of your post where you said that the ultimate proof of Tiger's bad on-course conduct for you was his movement during Yang's final putt. That's just plain nonsense, as anyone can see on YouTube: Yang hits the ball at 0:35 and only then Tiger starts moving (behind Yang's back, too!). That's the only thing I was discussing in my previous post.  

  PS: I'm otherwise very willing to listen to the Catholic Church, as it happens to be one of my long-term clients.  

• nivlac 2,188 Posts

  Sat, Sep 12 2009 5:41 PM

   Interesting... was Tiger moving or was he not?  Let's go to the tape....

  

  This is frame 1.  There's three things to notice here.  First, and most important, Tiger is not in Yang's peripheral vision.  If Yang can see Tiger, then he might just be the guy from Heroes in disguise.  Second, Yang's putter is already mid-backswing in this capture.  Third, look at Tiger.  He's got a hand on his hip and left toe into the ground.  He's standing still right now.

  Fast forward about 1/2 second:

  

  This is Yang's contact point.  Look at Tiger.  His hand is just coming off his hip and his toe is just barely off the green.

  Fast forward another 1/2 second:

  

  Yang has stroked his putt and it's on it's way to the hole.  Tiger is just about to take his first step forward.

  My conclusion based on this evidence is that Tiger did not move... this time.  Who's to say what happens next time though.  He sure does cut it close and in real time it's a tough call for anyone to say he did or didn't move early, but perhaps that was due to the fact that he was annoyed that Yang did not let him finish out first as is customary in this type of situation.

• Snaike 3,678 Posts

  Sat, Sep 12 2009 5:55 PM

  nivlac:

  He sure does cut it close and in real time it's a tough call for anyone to say he did or didn't move early, but perhaps that was due to the fact that he was annoyed that Yang did not let him finish out first as is customary is this type of situation.

  and this is the only excuse I am willing to give him a pass on.  But, even at that, it's still the very thin end of the wedge, so to speak..

  Strawman:

   ...said that the ultimate proof of Tiger's bad on-course conduct for you was his movement during Yang's final putt.

  Thanks Strawman... I did not say this was the ULTIMATE proff, it was the example that I could come up with and was top of mind as I was writing.  That putt, in real time as Niv says, was way too close for me..  If you would like, I will scour the web and find you example after example after example.  It's not hard to do.

   

• nivlac 2,188 Posts

  Sat, Sep 12 2009 6:09 PM

  Agreed.  Even with the benefit of freezing the tape it was difficult to tell exactly.  Those three pictures are all in the span of just about a second.  He should've waited til he saw the ball roll out from behind Yang before he made any movement. He could've waited 2 seconds first, but had to be Mr. Fidgety instead.

  The one thing to consider about Tiger is that he is easy to vilify.  Great players are always held up to higher standards and it can sometimes be easy to get upset at them for doing things that a lot of everyday players do too.  They just aren't in the spotlight enough for it to be seen as a problem.  Who's gonna tape Pat Perez' practice round?  Nobody probably.

• tibbets 1,043 Posts

  Sat, Sep 12 2009 6:24 PM

  Way too much being made of Tiger's "antics" here.

  Case in point:  We wouldn't be thinking that about the great Jack Nicklaus, would we?

  Think again.  Battle at Turnberry, 1977.  Jack was a lot older then than Tiger is now.  Have a look at what happens after Jack's tee shot.  

  *gasp* Did he slam his club?  What a baby!

  So, are we going to say that Jack needed to 'grow up'?  Of course not.  It was the great irony of Rick Reilly's piece referred to above during the British Open at Turnberry this year.  Clearly, Mr. Reilly, amongst others, have clearly forgotten that the previous 'great one' was always cursing and slamming his clubs.  No one even questioned Nicklaus' etiquette.  It just comes with the territory of the game of golf, especially among those who hold themselves up to a certain standard of excellence.

  We also need to keep some perspective here on Tiger's *antics*.   Have a look at any other major professional sport, and you'll find players with names you've never heard of making incredibly routine plays and showboating like they just won the Grand Poohbah Championship of the Universe.  By comparison, anything Tiger displays out of anger or joy is tame.

  *edit* We've already been down the Y.E.Yang road earlier in the thread.  Yang made a no-no of his own in not letting Tiger finish out before wining the tournament.  So, if Tiger moved, so be it.  tit-for-tat.