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The Site Police

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Mon, Aug 24 2009 8:41 AM (35 replies)
  • jakestanfill7
    949 Posts
    Fri, Aug 21 2009 8:18 PM

    This message is in no way intended as an indictment of anyone in any manner, but solely a solicitation for response to a querry I pondered today.  I post with a wry smile on my face and a drink in hand, so those of you (and you know who you are :-) who dedicate and inordinate amount of time keeping the newbies in line on the forums please don't perceive this as an attack.  We are blessed on this site to have a very diverse constituency that are passionate about many different things and those who inspired this post do a fantastic job.

    That said, I want to know what makes ALL of you WGTers tick?  Personally I thrive on competition and even have a hard time letting my 3 yr old beat me at a game!  In the month that I have been on this site I have had one major focus; honing my skills in order to win tournaments.  As an ex-athlete who is past his prime this is the best outlet I can find these days. I'm also on the shelf recovering from yet another knee surgery so I can't compete on the green grass of my home course.   I just wish Brett Favre could discover WGT. 

    The question I was pondering today that lead me to post the editorial gem is this...some of the most "helpful" individuals in the forums have yet to achieve the upper echelon of WGT achievement, the Masters Tier.  I am eternally grateful to these persons for teaching the value of contribution, and the cost of redundancy.  Their unwavering dedication to show the light is commendable but very different from what drives me.  Personally I want to show the light illuminating from my trophy case! 

    So here's the $64,000 question, is time better served by selfless posts for the betterment of others or polishing your skills as a virtual golfer?  Again, this is a very good natured post so please refrain from blasting anyone bloggers who may have made you feel inadequate, simply let us know where your inspiration lies.   

  • sabbath270
    231 Posts
    Fri, Aug 21 2009 9:18 PM

    I wouldn't say that's me, though I do post a lot.

    Easy answer: bored at work. :]

  • jakestanfill7
    949 Posts
    Fri, Aug 21 2009 9:25 PM

    Nice Sabbath.  As I said it's not directed at anyone, just wondering what most folks motivation is.  Work sucks but I'm afraid to access the site on the clock for fear they'll realize how little I do.  :-)  Instead I neglect the family!

  • Soulcatcher
    1,970 Posts
    Fri, Aug 21 2009 10:02 PM

    I am not the most prolific poster on the site.   

     

    For me ......I love golf ....I love this site.... if in any small way I can make it better or more interesting or more attractive to more poeple to play then that is great. 

     

    by the way

     

     

     

     

     

    two guys walk into a bar.....................................

     

     

    that is kind of funny........................

     

     

     

    you would think the second guy would have seen it.............................

  • SweetiePie
    4,925 Posts
    Fri, Aug 21 2009 10:14 PM

    Forgive me...but what was the question?

  • scoresby
    158 Posts
    Fri, Aug 21 2009 11:02 PM

    As a golfing-on-WGT addict, I've become an enabler.  

    Share the knowledge, get 'em hooked, and grow a bounty of knowledgeable fellow competitors who do the same.

    Also, with beverage of the day in hand.

     

    Cheers,

  • Faterson
    2,902 Posts
    Sat, Aug 22 2009 1:26 AM

    SweetiePie:
    Forgive me...but what was the question?

    Indeed!     I'll try & fish them out of the "editorial gem".

    jakestanfill7:
    those of you [...] who dedicate [an] inordinate amount of time keeping the newbies in line on the forums

    Seeing the mess in which these moderator-deprived forums are, it would not seem entirely fair to blame any forum user for trying to rectify the issue. As an illustration of the mess, my post explaining in detail why this forum needs moderators was deleted from this forum along with the entire thread to which it was sent, while flagrant abuses of the forum are sometimes ignored even after users report them via the Report Abuse link. Here is the deleted post I had made 4 days ago on the necessity of forum moderators; since I had spent quite a few minutes writing it, I made sure to make an offsite back-up of it, and here is the restored text:

    Faterson:
    It's great that WGT is pretty quick to react to the Report Abuse notifications they receive from this forum; they have successfully deleted/locked a few useless/offending posts/threads that way. (In the process, also deleted a few legitimate posts or prematurely locked a few threads discussing unresolved issues.) Those things appear to be happening in an "anonymous" fashion, however; the appearance is as if there is a forum admin in the background, making necessary steps in emergency situations when alerted to them. That is not the same thing as a standard forum moderator, though. Among the most frequent tasks I need to perform elsewhere as a forum moderator are: merging duplicate threads (a merge has never happened here so far, to my knowledge; perhaps the merging functionality is not available); transferring incorrectly placed threads to the correct forum subsection (haven't seen that happen here either); renaming threads with misleading titles (hasn't happened); etc., etc.

    The typical moderation task for [a repetitive] thread would be to merge it with all the foregoing [duplicate] threads, or at least lock all the foregoing threads on the same topic & only keep [the new thread] alive, and not to allow any duplicate threads on the same issue to be created in future. That's a hell of a task  One needs a full-blooded moderator for that, rather than just an emergency admin in the background; and I'd hate to see such tasks imposed on [...] any single person. Some users have volunteered for WGT to act as forum moderators and perhaps WGT will entrust them with those moderation tasks later on. That is a tricky thing, though; an inexpert moderator can do more harm than good in a forum, and might mess up its database. One of the things a forum admin must therefore do on a daily (if not hourly) basis, are forum database backups in case anything goes wrong with volunteer moderators. In short, it will take some time for WGT to take the right steps regarding forums moderation; and there are quite a number of bugs regarding forum functionality, too, most notably the unavailability of the Quote & Preview buttons when composing replies, etc., etc.

    In reply to this, the user sabbath270 posted a link to the Wikipedia definition of forum moderators, which seems to confirm that the WGT forums, indeed, currently lack moderators. At some later point in time, this entire discussion got deleted by an anonymous forum admin without warning: all the posts by myself & sabbath270 regarding this. Yes, the posts were sent to an originally redundant thread, but once forum users send carefully worded replies to a thread, the correct moderating response is not to delete those users' posts blindly & wholesale, but to lock that thread.

    jakestanfill7:
    what makes ALL of you WGTers tick?

    As to me, this game and the forums serve as relaxation away from work.
    jakestanfill7:
    some of the most "helpful" individuals in the forums have yet to achieve the upper echelon of WGT achievement, the Masters Tier.
    You need to practice a lot if you want to become a "master" at anything. I tried to learn to play the piano and had to give it up, seeing as I had not enough time for practice. The same applies to this golf game: I don't have enough time to practice to be able to advance to the Master tier.

    jakestanfill7:
    is time better served by selfless posts for the betterment of others or polishing your skills as a virtual golfer?

    This question does not really exist, unfortunately. You need a lot more time for playing a round of golf than for firing off a few quick forum replies. If anyone is being too obnoxious in the forums, I suppose his/her fellow users will let him/her know, perhaps WGT will let him/her know as well, and then that person will perhaps leave the site for good & find a different form of entertainment more akin to their taste.  

  • GSpinks1962
    106 Posts
    Sat, Aug 22 2009 7:06 AM

    That looks like an application to me. Why don't you just send WGT an email asking for the job? As an avid reader of this forum it is crystal clear to me you have been lobbying for the job for some time now. 

  • jakestanfill7
    949 Posts
    Sat, Aug 22 2009 7:34 AM

    Cheers Sir Faterson and thanks for the reply.  I had read your post concerning moderation of the forum before it got deleted and agree it shouldn't have been exiled to cyberspace.  I also read the blog on your page about abstaining from discussion on the timeless topic that we won't mention!  I pledge allegiance to your cause, although as a rookie I did fall into the trap. 

    I find myself in agreement with most (if not all) of your posts, as well as the user whose name rhymes with Jake.  Quite obviously this was my source of inspiration and was in no way an attempt to question what you do, but rather why?  Moderating the forums seems a monumental undertaking, much more labor intensive and time consuming than playing a round of golf.  Personally I enjoy the forums but draw much more satisfaction from striking the ball and watching it go where I intended.  That lead me to what I thought was a simple question (lol) but I guess a few vodkas muddled the message considerably.  "Where do most folks on the site find their enjoyment, in the forums or on the course?"

    Keep up the good work, as your efforts truly are selfless and serve a valuable purpose. 

    Post Script-  "Editorial Gem" could not have been more sarcastic as I fully realized that there was a considerable amount of rambling to which I'm sure you can relate!

  • Faterson
    2,902 Posts
    Sat, Aug 22 2009 7:52 AM

    Thank you, Jakestanfill7. We do both understand the nature of "editorial gems".    As to what gives anyone the highest enjoyment, for me it is writing, no doubt about it. Not necessarily in a forum or online, but writing as a creative activity.

    GSpinks1962:
    That looks like an application to me. [...] it is crystal clear to me you have been lobbying for the job for some time now. 

    Wrong impressions.    I've been lobbying for the introduction of moderatorS, not for myself. My idea of the boss moderator would be Nivlac or AvatarLee, should they have time for such a task. The idea that WGT might pay anyone for such services occurred to me for the first time when I read your post here. My feeling is that if these forums are to be properly moderated, this can only be achieved either by a team of volunteer, unpaid moderators (as is usual on sites like these; as Jakestanfill7 says, it would be a monumental undertaking for any individual, and I had already said so myself in my previous post above); or the moderation can indeed be performed by a single person who would, however, have to be remunerated for his/her services by WGT, as being solely responsible for these forums would indeed entail some portion of work from the person on a daily basis. I'm a paid forum moderator & admin elsewhere and I know that in a discussion forum, there's no such thing as a weekend or holidays, people can post around the clock, causing potential problems around the clock, and if a site happens to collapse on a Saturday morning (as WGTLS did earlier today), you've gotta deal with it immediately. While I would consider such a proposal from WGT if it came my way, I'm not going to pursue such an idea actively myself; there are many users on this site who can propose suitable candidates to WGT, as I've just done by mentioning Nivlac & AvatarLee.

    As to the impatience that some seem to dislike in some of my responses to newbie users, that's partly professional disease. It makes me go like this  and this  when I see on a daily or hourly basis how mismanaged (or non-managed) these forums are. The thing is, GSpinks1962, that in a well-managed forum, none of those curt one-line responses to faltering newbies would have been necessary. Has anyone made a duplicate post? No verbal response from moderator is necessary: the redundant post gets silently deleted. Has anyone sent their post to the incorrect forum section? No verbal response from moderator is necessary: the post gets silently transferred to the correct forum section by the moderator. Has the user posted a query already profusely dealt with in the past? No verbal response from moderator is necessary: the moderator silently merges the new post with the existing thread already examining the particular issue. You'd get to see none of that gruff irascibility in a properly managed forum that we often see here; those traits get frequently displayed in these forums precisely because there are no moderators. Take the bemoaned issue of quitters as an example; I'm 100% certain if there were a single thread devoted to discussing this issue in the entire forums ("All Quitters Talk Goes to This One Thread!"), instead of 200 threads in all the forum subsections, with new quitters threads being added every other day – then I'm sure no one would have minded the existence of a single quitters thread like that, and no one would have hysterically required others to stop talking about quitters, or even propose bans on "quitters talk".   

    PS: Expect to see this entire, meticulously argued thread deleted without warning by Monday morning, California time.  

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