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Cheating in WGT ??

Sun, Jul 19 2009 7:09 PM by Faterson. 33 replies.
  • dorkfeatures Australia
    653 Posts
    Mon, May 4 2009 9:11 PM

    Question for WGT

    Ok - I'm not losing any sleep over players that are cheating, sandbagging, disconnections, multiple accounts, etc etc however I think for the future of this great game you have to do something about it. A number of leading players have also commented on this and it really needs addressing.

    Acknowledged -  the rankings don’t really mean that much, it’s the tournament results that count. However - it can be very frustrating and annoying for players to have to deal with cheats, especially new players.

    Multiple accounts – IP Logging. Does WGT have the ability to check through IP data to clear this up? Many other games organisations do this to stamp out similar problems (World of Warcraft and account sharing for example).

    Swing Meter - I am aware that people could develop software to be able to replicate the clicking of the mouse button at the exact right time on the swing meter down swing. This obviously takes the mouse out of the equation altogether for game play. Is there any way this can be checked? Obviously this type of software has to interact with the game platform, so can this be looked at?

    Logging of round data. While it’s fine to play numerous rounds and collect your own data on each hole / course, physically as you play each hole. No issue there –  what do WGT have to combat software which I believe could be written to do exactly that  - record all of the "round"  data for each and every round you play, and then use that data to place super accurate shots close to the pin.

    It could be used  to ascertain the exact details of all the best holes played taking into account all of the game variables - if players are doing that then I feel they are going way beyond  acceptable practice.

    I've seen a couple of forum posts recently. One was about a player who disconnected on the 18th after going in the sand. OK, there are lots of reasons for disconnections, however that one is very suss. A penalty should be given to that player. A record can then be built up of a players profile then it would be easy to see who is cheating. It would show the number of disconnections and when – again WGT have that info at hand, they just need to use it. Also the recent post about the player who was -4 and on the second hole?? how does that work???

    Other forms of cheating?  I don’t really know but I think for the sake of the game all forms need to be looked into and action taken, because the game is being played for real money after all. Ok - in the hack divisions it’s a lot easier to cheat and there’s not so much at stake – that not withstanding we don’t want cheats on this site.

    I understand the game is still in BETA, however once the game “goes Gold”  you would want it 100% cheat proof.

    Be interested in other player’s comments on this also.

    Keep up the good work WGT –it’s a great game, but PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE lets sort out these cheats.

    Cheers

    Doug

     

     

  • nivlac United States
    2,188 Posts
    Mon, May 4 2009 10:35 PM

    Good post and I checked out your site too, pretty cool.

    One point I do feel I need to mention though.  You mentioned about the player disconnecting on #18 being considered cheating.  Cheating implies gaining an advantage where normally none exists.  By disconnecting on the last hole, you are not gaining an advantage.  Your scoring average may not raise, but having a low scoring average gives you no advantage come tournament time.  In fact, most players who play this way actually end putting themselves at a disadvantage.  Many of these golfers are not capable of consistently putting up low scores.  Thus, they advance themselves into a division where they can't hope to compete with the top players because they don't perform on a regular basis. 

    If some folks want to play WGT limbo and see how low they can go, they should.  They are not hurting the site or any of it's players by doing so.

    I think it's important to make the distinction that this isn't cheating and it is not an exploit because the option to quit without saving exists right on the menu.  I'd like to see focus placed upon the real cheaters out there.  The people who ARE gaining an unfair advantage with multiple accounts and whatnot.

    Just some food for thought.

    Oh and the -4 thing is a replay glitch.  Replays don't know what happened beforehand, so they assume they are showing the first shot on the hole.  That player was on a par 5 and the replay was of a holed approach.  Technically, the replay knows the event has already happened and since the replay thought it was showing his first shot... up comes -4.  1 shot on a par 5 as far as the replay was concerned.

  • bluescouse United Kingdom
    1,185 Posts
    Tue, May 5 2009 4:43 AM

    Excellent post Doug, with some really valid points.

     

    In terms of logging out when you’re having a bad round though, I have to agree with Nivlac on this issue. Most players with a half decent average log out these days rather than post a score that will affect it. Its common practice and in my view perfectly understandable. Half the fun of playing this game is meeting people and having a chat with them as you play. However, due to numerous issues, not least the increased lagging when in multi-player mode, you very rarely play anywhere near your average in these situations so I don’t think penalising people would be fair. I play with others quite often and always play up to the last green before informing them that I’m going to log out. Most people don’t have a problem with this.

     

    One way around it though would be to dispense with the averages altogether, and replace them with handicaps, just like in the real game. Admittedly, some people would still take advantage of this system, but all the top players would eventually be playing off scratch and if more tournaments with better prizes were created just for these players, then it would give everyone an added incentive to achieve scratch status. High handicapped players consistently punching above their weight would be easily identifiable, and let’s face it, as in the real game, they would only be fooling themselves anyway.

     

    In terms of using various forms of software to improve your scores, I wouldn’t have a clue where to start, not being very technologically minded. Its all I can do to take account of the existing factors such as wind speed, ball lie etc, without introducing external elements. I remember one guy some months ago giving me what he described as the ‘golden key’ to this game. It was all about working out various mathematical equations and fractions, and was completely wasted on me. In any case there was an update just after when the new clubs were introduced, and he said his theory was completely irrelevant after that.

     

    Time to fess up! I did experiment by putting a transparent ruler (do you guys call them slide rules?) on my screen over the power bar for a while in order to glean more accuracy. To be honest I just found it off-putting (geddit), so abandoned the idea after a day or two, and now just rely on the naked eye again. Other than that, I wouldn’t know where to start, but have neither the time nor the inclination to experiment.

     

    At the end of the day, this game is supposed to be fun first and foremost. If people wish to gain top scores by tweaking the rules in some way, then I don’t really see how that can be prevented. Its just a shame that they feel the need to do this in the first place. I don’t know how widespread it is, but in my experience all the top players I have played with and even some I haven’t have been very generous to me and others in terms of offering advice and guidance. Nivlac and Tibbetts spring immediately to mind. For me, they play in the true spirit of the game and there are others who could do worse than follow their example.

     

    If we all try to do the same, the true community spirit of this site, which is what first attracted me to it, will continue to blossom, and the cheats will either get bored, or feel marginalised and eventually move on.

     

    Here’s hoping!

     

    Sean

  • bluescouse United Kingdom
    1,185 Posts
    Tue, May 12 2009 7:41 AM

    Just had another thought on this.

    Dispense with the averages and replace them with handicaps as suggested above, but create different tiers within the game so that you will be rewarded with new and better courses, clubs, comps etc as your handicap comes down.

    This will give everyone an added incentive to progress to the next level, just like in lots of other online games.

    Sean

  • jbowles824 United States
    67 Posts
    Tue, May 12 2009 11:06 AM

    Doug,

    The only issue with IP logging is I have a account and play a fairly good amount. My wife, who does not play as much up to this point has an account and we use the  same home computer. Won't that mean that one of use will have to stop?

  • icecolbud United States
    8 Posts
    Mon, Jun 1 2009 8:02 AM

    I'm not a techno geek either so I don't know how they cheat, but I can tell after playing the Bethpage U.S.Open several times that they are cheating. I can't reach the par 4's in under 3 srokes. I can't reach the par 5 fairways from the tee. The par 3's are fairway woods and you can't stop them near the hole. So anyone scoring under par here has to be using a cheat program. It is to a point where I'm gonna walk away. No way to compete with these people and so it isn't alot of fun. WGT has to address these issues or they're site will be just another crap site.

  • MElli22631 United States
    32 Posts
    Mon, Jun 1 2009 8:13 AM

    Sorry but your wrong - you do not have to cheat to reach par 4's in 3 or the fairways. Sometimes you need some luck with the wind, but all fairways are reachable with perfect shots and the wind no being like 15 mph in your face. I've broken par a few times and have made as much as 6 birdies in a round, so the low scores can be done.

  • AvatarLee Canada
    1,644 Posts
    Mon, Jun 1 2009 8:55 AM

    6 birdies and the rest pars.  It's called course management.  Period.

    So please, just because you can't do it, do not assume others cannot, or have to cheat to do so.

    Lee

  • chuckiee United States
    1,924 Posts
    Mon, Jun 1 2009 9:02 AM

    Tell me how you score par on bethpage black when you joined wgt 25th may 09, 13 may 09, 22nd may 09, come on wgt should know somthings up with that. I'm pissed that nothing is being done about it either I know it's to hard of a course for anyone to do that. Thats cheating  I could care less if someone dissconects or pads there average thats not keeping me from qualifying for the open. Want to put a stop to it go back to giving shirts , hats and balls away again random drawings I like winning just like everyone does but when you give away prizes like wgt does your going to have what we see here now.

    chuckiee 

  • AvatarLee Canada
    1,644 Posts
    Mon, Jun 1 2009 9:36 AM

    Chuckiee,

    The form of cheating you are referring to is the use of multiple accounts.  These are obviously people whom have played under different accounts previously, and this issue is well known in these forums.  The form of cheating that was implied above, by my interpretation, was that anyone who shoots below par on Bethpage must be a cheater, using some form hack to get around the program.  As I represent one of the top players (under par) referred to, I take offense to the accusation, and will not tolerate it.  So yes, I agree with your point that a relatively new user should not be able to post anywhere near par on a course as hard as Bethpage because the learning curve is so large.  

    Lee

     

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