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Understanding Wind, Precision & Forgiveness

• ZioMio 4,680 Posts

  Sun, Dec 23 2012 11:51 AM

  SHRUDE:

  ZioMio:

  Are you a decedent of the Mayans?

  The Mayans wern't Decadent...

   

  Maybe you meant descendant :)

   

  WGT Crop Circles..

   

   

  Damn spell checker doesn't correct stupid. LoL

• ZioMio 4,680 Posts

  Sun, Dec 23 2012 11:59 AM

  When using the wind calculator, do you move your aim marker to the calculated distance or just to determine  which club and amount of power to use  for that shot?

• buzkashi 403 Posts

  Sun, Dec 23 2012 12:21 PM

  Some players seem to do the former, but I do the latter,  and move the marker to the approximate right or left position relative to the amount of crosswind.

• Scott2mee 281 Posts

  Sun, Dec 23 2012 1:04 PM

  SGTBilko:

   

  Have you ever wondered why is it that  your shot can be dead on pin on one shot and other times completely off?  It's because the game is designed that way! Golfing on WGT is based upon mathematical algorithms that create everything from the shot to the ball roll out when it hits. Unlike real golf, mathematical algorithms have no variances. To create these variances WGT has employed such things as VEM, precision and forgiveness into the model to simulate or re-create those effects that every real golfer knows all too well that affect their shots.

  The two factors that will affect your shot outcome the most are precision and forgiveness.  Each and every club on WGT has a 5 dot rating for each of these categories. Using the picture below let’s say that precision is left and right of the pin location and forgiveness is long or short of the pins location. While the exact distance that each dot represents is not known for this example let’s say that a club with zero dots on forgiveness and precision represents 20 feet for each circle.
  
  

  During each and every shot these 2 circles overlap.  Each shot has multiple outcomes 1. You could be dead on with distance, but up to 20 feet left or right of the hole. 2. You could be dead the hole but 20 feet long or short of the hole. 3. You could be up to20 feet long and left of the hole…..4, 5, 6, etc. I think you get the point!.
  

   Now, using the example below let’s say that each dot added to the club represents 2 feet. The more dots a club has the tighter the circle becomes.  If each dot represents 2 feet we now have reduced our circles from 20 feet down to 10 feet in our example.  I know there are some on here that believe that WGT or the game selectively goes after them individually, this is either pure arrogance or narcissistic at best.

  

   As you can see, with precision and forgiveness coming in to play on each shot, it doesn't matter if we ding the shot or not these variables will always affect the shot. Like many of you I have on occasion missed the ding by a decent amount and still came up with a great shot as well as the complete opposite.  I am sure if each of you think back you have had the same happen to you. 

    I have cursed the guy at WGT that sits there in his little chair with everyone standing around behind him laughing as he pushes the VEM button causing glitches and  making my straight in putts break left or right.. Of course he does this when I'm shooting way below par.. I feel better knowing its not someone at WGT causing my short putts to roll off the green..Or go twenty feet past the hole.. This explains a lot.. If there were no varables players would beat the daylights out of the game..The way it is now the game is a challenge.. Thanks Sarge or the schooling..

• spaceghost88 1,624 Posts

  Sat, Mar 16 2013 10:42 AM

  AWESOME INFO PLEASE GIVE US MORE THIS IS TRULY GREAT HELP !

• SGTBilko 1,686 Posts

  Sun, Mar 17 2013 5:17 AM

  spaceghost88:

  AWESOME INFO PLEASE GIVE US MORE THIS IS TRULY GREAT HELP !

  Thanks SG

• MikeHD 89 Posts

  Wed, Dec 18 2013 4:40 PM

  Not sure that you are exactly correct Bilko.
  I think that precision refers to how closely bunched your shots would be if you made the exact same contact every time (i.e. consistency). A random variation is built into the algorithm.
  Forgiveness refers to how far off the target the centre of that precision is if the shot is not dinged exactly (i.e. accuracy). Not hitting the ding will make the centre of the circle move to either the right or left of the aiming direction, and also fall short of the nominal distance.
  For instance lots of shots hit with a perfect 100 metre ding will go straight for 100 metres on average but a single individual shot might fall within a circle of radius say 5 metres. 
  Miss the ding to the left and the circle will now be centred say, a few metres to the left and a bit short of 100 metres distance.
  Having higher precision makes the circle smaller, and having high forgiveness means that the average deviation caused by missing the ding is smaller.
  
  High forgiveness, high precision = tight grouping around the target (accurate & consistent)
  High forgiveness, low precision = loose grouping around the target (accurate but inconsistent)
  Low forgiveness, high precision = tight grouping, off target and short (inaccurate but consistent)
  Low forgiveness, low precision = loose grouping, off target and short (inaccurate & inconsistent)

• JimbeauC 5,835 Posts

  Wed, Dec 18 2013 9:17 PM

  Okay. So I didn't read every line.

  What I find most instructive are the "no wind" tourneys. Those dings that have been so carefully thought out miss by 1, 2 or 5 yards. That's vem. I suppose we must just accept it. 

  Hi Ho. (That's a burp, Vonnegut fans.)

• 33yankee44 2 Posts

  Tue, Feb 4 2014 6:23 PM

  Agree 100%

• keidan 311 Posts

  Thu, Feb 13 2014 2:52 PM

  MikeHD:

  Not sure that you are exactly correct Bilko.
  I think that precision refers to how closely bunched your shots would be if you made the exact same contact every time (i.e. consistency). A random variation is built into the algorithm.
  Forgiveness refers to how far off the target the centre of that precision is if the shot is not dinged exactly (i.e. accuracy). Not hitting the ding will make the centre of the circle move to either the right or left of the aiming direction, and also fall short of the nominal distance.
  For instance lots of shots hit with a perfect 100 metre ding will go straight for 100 metres on average but a single individual shot might fall within a circle of radius say 5 metres. 
  Miss the ding to the left and the circle will now be centred say, a few metres to the left and a bit short of 100 metres distance.
  Having higher precision makes the circle smaller, and having high forgiveness means that the average deviation caused by missing the ding is smaller.
  
  High forgiveness, high precision = tight grouping around the target (accurate & consistent)
  High forgiveness, low precision = loose grouping around the target (accurate but inconsistent)
  Low forgiveness, high precision = tight grouping, off target and short (inaccurate but consistent)
  Low forgiveness, low precision = loose grouping, off target and short (inaccurate & inconsistent)

   

  Hi Mike,  

  I agree with your description of the relationship between forgiveness and precision.  I thought I would try to interpret it visually...  let me know what you think, perhaps there are other diagrams like this in the forum, I just haven't found any so far.  

  Target (or flag) is shown at the center as a square in each diagram.  5 random shots (blue crosses) are chosen within a given circle of precision.  I think the overlap of given shots can help explain some player observations, such as "I missed the ding left and my shot went right!  How is this possible?" etc.

  I used a red circle as a reference to the best case (a dinged shot with high precision and forgiveness) again to show overlapping possibilities when hitting/missing the ding, and how sometimes bad shots can turn out pretty good (and viceversa) or other seemingly unusual results.

  As you point out, the accuracy of a shot is a result of the player's proximity to a dinged shot AND a forgiveness factor that reduces or enhances the effect.    

  -Keith