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Re: Whats the most coins you saw won in your league?

• el3n1 4,494 Posts

  Wed, Jun 3 2020 8:19 AM

  Mythanatos:

  What do you mean by abuse?

  You are not that naïve... you have to know a lot of top TW clubs especially were throwing matches and using the coin apparel boost to still increase win rates and not losing any coins in the process.  Which was even magnified by the use of Monaco in TW before it was shut down.

  That does not mean everyone was doing so.  There are or were still a number of players that played legitimate, but it does not mean the coin games / the TW's were not abused.  To inflate coin earnings well above what would be in play otherwise.

   

• Mythanatos 2,203 Posts

  Wed, Jun 3 2020 9:00 AM

  what was being done was people having second accounts or friends and throwing matches to win Turf Wars in Monaco. Then using the bonus to come back from zero the next day. Then matching back up and rebuilding the stash.

   

  As stated the coins mean nothing. no value. once you have 100 million or so the rest is just superfluous.

  it's just an imaginary pile with no value. So if can't do anything with it. How can it be abuse?

   

  It's like i gave you a fake 5 dollar bill then you drew 100 copies of it. Having 100 of yours is just as worthless as the original 5. 

• el3n1 4,494 Posts

  Wed, Jun 3 2020 9:52 AM

  Mythanatos:

  How can it be abuse?

  it is abuse, because it is an in game currency that is required to use for aspects of the game.  not everyone has 100 million coins and views them as worthless... but the vast majority of people abusing possibly how WGT envisioned them being utilized effects how they can be used now.

  in a similar fashion to credits... credits are essentially worthless to people with over 100,000 credits or those who sell them off for pennies on the dollars when that option was available... other people value them because they are used as an in game currency to obtain items within the game.

  you upgrade your clubs for example.. silver coins likewise allow players to upgrade equipment and max out their drivers to distances they could not do or receive without the use of silver coins... so they clearly have value to them to max out their apparel.  

  And they do so, to not lose a competitive edge... some even buy sponsor apparel boxes with credits in order to upgrade their apparel faster which they will then use silver coins to do.  

  so as worthless as they are to those who have hundreds of millions of them now, they were required to invest either credits, time, ball hits over the course of hundreds of rounds played which still has a cost associated with it...to obtain something they can only upgrade with silver coins. -- regardless of whether someone views them as worthless or not, they remain an in game form of currency that is still required to upgrade your driver or other equipment with apparel if you wish to do so.  

  I would also suggest, the value of coins gradually changes for those who start out with a minimal to small bankroll compared to the time they build them up to millions or billions.  

• Mythanatos 2,203 Posts

  Wed, Jun 3 2020 11:16 AM

  credits and coins are two different conversations. They just aren't related in the least. WGT never cared about inflation of the silver coins or they never would have put in the bonuses with apparel and the TWs. 

   

  And as i said, i can't out buy my way to the apparel the points are won and only activated by the coins and the price for upgrades has always been trifling. 

   

  As to acquiring coins if the player has any skills at the game and is just smart about management.  getting the coins is not a problem. it's a matter of weeks if just put the time in and that's without using Monaco. I still have never been in Monaco.

  Granted the speed i can do it now is faster than if i had lower gear but not significantly. I had high win %s in coin rooms against champs/and TLs when i was just a level 80 Legend.

   

  But currently if i stay in Rio. a 20k bet room i can make 500-600k  profit in an evening 83-85 win %. If i want to play Tokyo I can do about 4-5 million profit a night. 65 win %. I've tracked it these are my numbers if i put in the hours in the evening.

  I mean if someone wants to give me access to a lower account that's a level 84 player or higher with the clubs i want. i bet i can have it at 100 million in less that a month from zero coins. and that's staying out of Monaco. Coins are easy. thus the activating each level of apparel isn't even a thought. it's like if someone told me the price of a candy bar was a single penny. I'd buy it whether i liked the candy or not. it's just a penny. it's basically free. 

  In WGT credits have value. silver coins are worthless. 

   

   

   

• el3n1 4,494 Posts

  Wed, Jun 3 2020 1:04 PM

  Sid you know I admire you and your expertise, I just get perplexed at times why you sem to go a bit further regarding some statements I would think you understood better.

  As for coin games and value...you know I have done some work on that... I can also assess a value to the price you pay for those worthless coins in games.  It is not definitive proof and  just my way of understanding long term cost of using various types of balls... which in my mind assigns even a credit value to the cost of winning coins that some regard worthless.

  Do you really want me to crunch the numbers and show you how much more you are paying for your worthless coins than I am for winning the same amount of coins?  I am certain you are effectively paying more to win the same amount of coins.  Probably closer to 2 -3x more.  

   Win rate, proficiency and all that doesn't change how the coin rooms and TW's were abused.  Nor am I diminishing your expertise in the coin rooms.  I have tried to respect and honor you in ways.  I just don't value coin games the same and don't care to chase worthless coins to the same extent.

  Back to the abuse issue, I believe I even read some of your own post in these forums that described how it was being abused.  -- And, obviously WGT agreed with the influx of  those complaints because Monaco was shut down for TW's.  They usually only intervene when something is abused to make those kind of changes.

  You can convey all day silver coins are worthless to you.  I don't disagree with the diminishing value of coins to people over time especially once they build massive bankrolls.

  I am just saying - it does not change that coin rooms were abused to inflate the earnings by some people such that the overall value of coins and the flooding of the market in silver coins has likewise played a role that has diminished their value in further -- WGT actions appear to support that abuse was taken place - otherwise they would have done nothing.

  as for silver coins and credits not being the same -- they are both 2 vegetables in the garden used for different things.  So, I will disagree to the extent they are interwoven and both 2 different forms of in game currency that are used.  They are not identical and they don't have identical value but they both serve a purpose of in game currency (microtransaction) to keep people playing and earning them in one facet or another. 

• Mythanatos 2,203 Posts

  Wed, Jun 3 2020 1:56 PM

  el3n1:

  Do you really want me to crunch the numbers and show you how much more you are paying for your worthless coins than I am for winning the same amount of coins?  I am certain you are effectively paying more to win the same amount of coins.  Probably closer to 2 -3x more.  

  nah... i haven't bought credits in at least 3 years plus. long enough that i don't even remember it. I play for free and have for years.

  Even if I did buy credits and back in the day when i did when i was leveling up  it's a minimal cost. i wouldn't even count it. I consider WGT to be about the cheapest form of entertainment out there. Remember that penny i was talking about? Sleeve of balls lasts me 4-7 days depending on how much i play.  even if i bought the credits that $5.50. so max $11 a week.   Every single night that i play i spend $40-$150 on cigars and wine/whiskey. cost depending on what my particular choices  are for that night and whether Im at home on my balcony or at my cigar bar hangout. 

  just because your OCD has you  spending hours and hours figuring out how many pennies each swing costs based on the ball you use you doesnt mean that it's important to everyone.  as i said WGT is very very cheap entertainment. 

  and i play coin games because i like the 1v1 aspect. I find tourneys  boring in comparison. Which is why my ranked rounds are so low.

   

  anyway. i stand by my premise. Silver coins are worthless in value. Can make as many as you want for no cost. Each person can basically print their own stash. 

   

• el3n1 4,494 Posts

  Wed, Jun 3 2020 2:30 PM

  Interesting, I make an effort to recognize your own contributions and post that play a role in some of my own observations and you choose to label my curiosity as OCD which can take on negative connotations by some.

  Sometimes, it really starts to sound like someone standing in a room of mirrors only looking at themselves and failing to recognize this game and those who play is much more diverse than 1 persons experience.  I know my experience is not reflective of everyone and I don't try to claim it is... 

  I try to advocate and support the efforts of a variety of types of players.  Because not everyone can easily excel or master the game on a whim.  

  As for coin games versus tournaments... coin games with maxed out apparel are easy compared to heavy wind tournaments and C14 greens which you never see in coin games let alone C13.  

  Apparel simplifies the game which is possibly why most long term members don't care for it all that much.  It makes the game less challenging.  

  No harm in sticking with what you know best. 

• SimonTheBeetle 3,496 Posts

  Wed, Jun 3 2020 2:46 PM

  Mythanatos:

  it's just an imaginary pile with no value. So if can't do anything with it. How can it be abuse?

  It's like i gave you a fake 5 dollar bill then you drew 100 copies of it. Having 100 of yours is just as worthless as the original 5. 

  First off, thanks for your thoughts and explanation, el3n1. Couldn't agree more to every single word you spelt out. Honestly, I was so perplexed myself and didn't know where to start from when I first saw Mythanatos' "What do you mean by abuse?" LOL

  Mythanatos, IMHO a better comparison rather than the 'fake five-dollar bill' would be...

  Walmart initially had a plan of introducing & releasing "Walmart Money" that could be used in any store of theirs across the nation. They introduced it first without giving any further details on how specifically it can be used because they hadn't fully decided on it internally. And they modified a bit their return policy so that customers would receive some Walmart Money as a consolation whenever they return a purchased item without thinking through this would be a serious loophole. Then one day, Walmart noticed that there were customers buying an item and immediately returning it, fully exploiting the loophole of Walmart's return policy, just in order to collect those giveaway Walmart Money! They, therefore, decided to call it off at the end of the day.

  I think this gives a better causal order of this topic here.

• BOZskills 392 Posts

  Wed, Jun 3 2020 2:50 PM

  @BC74,well said!

• andwhy67 2,816 Posts

  Thu, Jun 4 2020 5:54 AM

  BOZskills:

  @BC74,well said!

  lmfao.....class!