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Re: The New GS Wind/Putting Program

• jaysamuelson 640 Posts

  Fri, Sep 23 2016 4:36 PM

  Calculators,really if you can figure it out in your mind, get off the course and let us play through....J

• PRStevenson 842 Posts

  Sun, Sep 25 2016 6:28 AM

  jessek12:

  And I certainly hope that PRStevenson wasn't suggesting that hackers/cheaters and people that use calculators when they play are at all the same.....

  I think you misunderstand what I wrote. I was talking about the drive to win at any cost. So most players who don't want to use calculators are less obsessed with winning but more interested in enjoying the game and using their brain to calculate shots. Players who use calculators are more driven to win and improve their game, albeit using pre-determined calculations (which just kills the enjoyment aspect for some players). Then there's hackers or cheats who take it too far and exploit the game in order to win. I've never suggested that hackers/cheats and people using calculators are the same and I think that's quite clear.
  
  I don't mind if people feel the need to rely on calculation sheets to do a better job. I have done calculations myself (long before this one was published) and I referred to it now and then when I needed to but on the whole I would prefer for players to try and use their own brain and work things out for themselves and/or make their own calculation sheets rather than taking someone else's.
  
  As everyone says each to their own and people will go with what works for them. Now let's get on and play! :)

• GitUsummaDis 468 Posts

  Sun, Sep 25 2016 4:42 PM

  IMO calculation sheets are only a way to speed up what you would already do in your brain, well, maybe not speed it up for some, but it does for some AND it doesn't overwhelm some who don't quite have the brain power. I'm one of those people but I'd rather not go into detail why but I was involved in an accident and now I'm disabled. WGT is a hobby for me.

  With that said, calcuation sheets aren't perfect. I still have to make small adjustments in my head to compensate for different courses, green speeds and other things that make WGT a great simulation golf game.

  Cheers!

• jessek12 102 Posts

  Mon, Sep 26 2016 8:05 AM

  PRStevenson:

  jessek12:

  And I certainly hope that PRStevenson wasn't suggesting that hackers/cheaters and people that use calculators when they play are at all the same.....

  I think you misunderstand what I wrote. I was talking about the drive to win at any cost. So most players who don't want to use calculators are less obsessed with winning but more interested in enjoying the game and using their brain to calculate shots. Players who use calculators are more driven to win and improve their game, albeit using pre-determined calculations (which just kills the enjoyment aspect for some players). Then there's hackers or cheats who take it too far and exploit the game in order to win. I've never suggested that hackers/cheats and people using calculators are the same and I think that's quite clear.

  I think we are in agreement PR. When I first re-joined back in April-ish, I found a couple of widely disseminated "calculations" for shots, spin, etc.  However, when I went to test them for myself, found out they were garbage. That's when I decided to make my own through trial and error and other, more knowledgeable sources. So completely agree, people that just blindly put numbers into a calculator without knowing rollout, effects of spin, contours of the green and where to place approach shots, are really just "gamers" and not golfers.

  I will also say that whoever is using a calculator, if you can't hit a shot within 30 seconds, you need to fix your damn calc or stop worrying about being so precise. My sheet gives me a power number and wind offset, but it's only an approximate and I don't waste time trying to drag back to 93.4% power or move the arrow 14.2 yards. Close enough is close enough, and it helps me work on my putting.

• 11BC2 555 Posts

  Mon, Sep 26 2016 10:25 AM

  Solarflares:

  Added to which - Where on earth does the satisfaction come from when using a machine to tell you how hard to hit and where to aim?

  Imho this is completely backwards and doesn't even remotely, NOT AT ALL, represent what is going on when someone uses a calculator (traditional, excel, kats, etc).

  A person can w/out a doubt, 100% do all the math w/out a fancy calculator and find out the distance and aim point.  The ONLY thing a calculator does is make the process faster.  That's it.  The game is so much more enjoyable when you don't have to fuss over doing the pain in the a$$ calculations in your head every shot (gives me a headache thinking about it). 

  Now you can concentrate on the shot itself.  Lot's of spin?  No spin?  No roll out?  Side roll out?  Off ding or try and ding it?  What are the contours of the green?  How will the ball land and react?  What kind of putt do I want to leave myself?  Maybe I'm in between clubs or in between a certain shot% (power) so I decide I want to Off Ding it to make a subtle yardage difference.

  So on and so forth.  Hell, I was having a conversation about High Wind with getsummadis yesterday.  KATS, and other similar type calculators DO NOT scale very well with more wind (specifically for aim/side wind).  I.e., small shots 10mph up to 100y gives good advice.  10mph with pw, 9, 8, 7, and 6i need to add more wind.  4, 3, and 3w need to subtract substantially less.  Adding 15, 20, and up to 30mph's wind makes everything above accentuated even more (it's problematic).

  For this reason I quite often use Sine (.259, .5, .7, .86, .96).  And of course I have my own notes and personal multipliers after I get the adjusted side wind, i.e. at 50y I use .35 of the wind given, etc.  However, I cannot stand doing Math and find it painful.  I do my best to avoid doing it myself when possible because it makes the game  truly unbearable and I don't even want to play it at that point.

  Using a calculator does nothing more than speed up the process.  Now I can concentrate on all the other nuances of the game and enjoy myself.  If you're a person who enjoys doing the calculations yourself and find it rewarding then go for it.  I for one would shoot myself (probably several times!) because that is not even remotely fun.  Certainly not rewarding in the slightest.  Agony, distress, and quite a bit of misery comes to mind.

• fatdan 3,379 Posts

  Mon, Sep 26 2016 12:15 PM

  Simply put there is nothing wrong with either as long as you don't use CE...

  If your shooting 52 or 70 and having fun, who cares how you do it.

• GitUsummaDis 468 Posts

  Mon, Sep 26 2016 4:27 PM

  What is CE? or do I want to know. lol

  SHF

• GitUsummaDis 468 Posts

  Mon, Sep 26 2016 4:30 PM

  11BC2:

  Solarflares:

  Added to which - Where on earth does the satisfaction come from when using a machine to tell you how hard to hit and where to aim?

  Imho this is completely backwards and doesn't even remotely, NOT AT ALL, represent what is going on when someone uses a calculator (traditional, excel, kats, etc).

  A person can w/out a doubt, 100% do all the math w/out a fancy calculator and find out the distance and aim point.  The ONLY thing a calculator does is make the process faster.  That's it.  The game is so much more enjoyable when you don't have to fuss over doing the pain in the a$ calculations in your head every shot (gives me a headache thinking about it). 

  Now you can concentrate on the shot itself.  Lot's of spin?  No spin?  No roll out?  Side roll out?  Off ding or try and ding it?  What are the contours of the green?  How will the ball land and react?  What kind of putt do I want to leave myself?  Maybe I'm in between clubs or in between a certain shot% (power) so I decide I want to Off Ding it to make a subtle yardage difference.

  So on and so forth.  Hell, I was having a conversation about High Wind with getsummadis yesterday.  KATS, and other similar type calculators DO NOT scale very well with more wind (specifically for aim/side wind).  

  My point exactly. 

  btw bro I need to share with you what I did to win that tournament in the final round with Hard Pins and High Wind.

• thewonderstuff 1,436 Posts

  Mon, Sep 26 2016 6:21 PM