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Re: "fixing" Pinehurst #2 - hole 4

• 2,840 Posts

  Fri, Nov 21 2014 4:45 PM

  alosso:

  Excuse me, Shoe, it sounds like a weak excuse.

  I know that you made the pics about a year before, but it's hard to believe that the 2014 set-up would not be known by that time. And why didn't you stick to a Par 5 when deciding to stick to the old 565 yds?

  ApexPC:

  So the 2014 US Open page does not show if on one of the 4 days of the tournament the 4th hole was set up to play as a 565 yard par 4.

  It didn't - I reported the four official lengths here from the live TV coverage, and they averaged to 522.5 yds.

  Here's a Pinehurst table showing the 529 yds.

  Pics are taken a year before yes, but thew actual building of the course doesn't start that minute.  So no not a excuse, it is a explanation of the process and why a hole may not match up exactly to what the US Open ends up using.

   

  - WGTdbloshoe

• Lisa03 5,910 Posts

  Fri, Nov 21 2014 9:23 PM

  Here's a review of the restoration Hole by Hole:

  The 4th hole use to be a par 5- well read this-even in the US OPEN the Yardage ranged from 529-565. It is what it is---a real test of golf and some holes are not reachable in 2-even by some Tour Pros

  http://www.pinehurst.com/news/pinehurst-2-restoration-hole-hole-tour/  

  Actually I'd rather have a 40 yd punch than a 60' putt.

   

  I played the course in 2001, if I remember it was a par 5 then and the tees were set at 510.

• alosso 21,037 Posts

  Sat, Nov 22 2014 12:16 AM

  Shoe, you have to defend your company, so we'll leave it at that - peace!

  OTOH, I fail to conceive why so many others try to convert "wrong" to "right"
  with one eye closed.

  Lisa03:

  The 4th hole use to be a par 5- well read this-even in the US OPEN the Yardage ranged from 529-565. It is what it is---a real test of golf and some holes are not reachable in 2-even by some Tour Pros

  http://www.pinehurst.com/news/pinehurst-2-restoration-hole-hole-tour/  

  Please bring proof that it has ever been played as a 565 yds Par 4 in a Championship. In the 2014 US Open, the 4th played from 497 to 542 yds, averaging 522.5.

  Your link proves my POV and live observation of the above numbers:

  For the championships, this has been changed from a par-5 to a par-4 and will play about 530 yards for the men and about 450 yards for the women.

   

• dedBuNNy 1,919 Posts

  Sat, Nov 22 2014 7:43 AM

  I fail to see why it matters, this isn't a golf sim by any stretch of the imagination. You don't have total control over your shots, if you think you do you're delusional. I mean this game is more about learning the kicks, and tricks, how to launch the ball, which holes are seriously short or longer than indicated... etc. 

  It's a Flash/browser based game created to approximate the game of golf. Just play it as such. I mean you can't even close the face of your club so you're missing a whole range of shots alone there around green or chopping out of rough.... 

  With all due respect to your programmer's and graphic's people - perhaps WGT should pay more because clearly you had, or still have sub-par people working on the game, either that or your QA/debugging process needs a serious overhaul. Sorry but the mapping and digitizing done within this game is so friggin' bad it's laughable. 

  Example? Glad you asked.... Playing last night, one of the AS players, hits a dinged perfect drive, lets just forget for the moment that it B-lined right and headed straight for the treeline for no apparent reason - It's what happened when it 'went into the trees'. Ball comes rocketing back like it was fired through a bloody worm-hole and lands like 120 yrds back from it's entry point.

  Laughable doesn't even begin to describe it... That's not even bad design/coding, that's just horrid project management. 

  And really... not to rag on the meter anymore, but really - does anyone staffed to work on it understand tempo? I can't even imagine trying to swing a golf club with the 'tempo' used in the swing most of the time ... whatever it is. And no I don't really have many 'moments' glitches, some recently, but it's usually pretty smooth as far as the animation - still doesn't explain the tempo. 

   

• Boomerboy44 1,514 Posts

  Sat, Nov 22 2014 9:00 AM

  Nothing is going to change......haven't you guys figured that out yet???

• donsprintr 2,063 Posts

  Sun, Nov 23 2014 12:31 PM

  mantis0014:

  It's the make or break hole on that course. I don't think it should be made any easier.

  Just saying, when playing in a comp and you birdie it, then you know that not many people will do the same.  Ya just have to worry about all the other holes then....lol

  -Roger

  I have to agree with Roger here ... Whistler #12, Cabo #18, Pinehurst #4 .... a hole or two on every course where birdie doesn't always happen. 

   

• TarheelsRule 5,470 Posts

  Wed, Nov 26 2014 8:34 AM

  I'm with you.    What difference does it really make.   It's actually nice to see a hole like this that gets you thinking about it when you tee off on the first hole.

  It can be a bear but with the number of 51 and 52's that fly around here, it's nice to see a hole that even the best players have to struggle to make par on.   

• PRIESTESS 10,703 Posts

  Wed, Nov 26 2014 5:01 PM

  alosso:

  Shoe, you have to defend your company, so we'll leave it at that - peace!

  OTOH, I fail to conceive why so many others try to convert "wrong" to "right"
  with one eye closed.

  Lisa03:

  The 4th hole use to be a par 5- well read this-even in the US OPEN the Yardage ranged from 529-565. It is what it is---a real test of golf and some holes are not reachable in 2-even by some Tour Pros

  http://www.pinehurst.com/news/pinehurst-2-restoration-hole-hole-tour/  

  Please bring proof that it has ever been played as a 565 yds Par 4 in a Championship. In the 2014 US Open, the 4th played from 497 to 542 yds, averaging 522.5.

  Your link proves my POV and live observation of the above numbers:

  For the championships, this has been changed from a par-5 to a par-4 and will play about 530 yards for the men and about 450 yards for the women.

   

  Lisa never said it played at 565, she said it " Ranged from 529-565 "  If they wanted to be mean they could set it at 565.

   

  4th Hole
  

  Par 4
  Yardage: 529 – 565
  New tee: Yes
  For the championships, this has been changed from a par-5 to a par-4 and will play about 530 yards for the men and about 450 yards for the women.

• alosso 21,037 Posts

  Wed, Nov 26 2014 7:56 PM

  Please don't shorten the quote beyond recognition.

  Lisa03:

  even in the US OPEN the Yardage ranged from 529-565.

  This statement has no fault but it does not support the setting in this game. I read it as "it played up to 565 in the US Open" which is correct for former years (Par 5), but, until proof may be given, it never played as a Par 4 of 565 yds. It certainly did not this year.

  PRIESTESS:

  If they wanted to be mean they could set it at 565.

  Apparently, the old tee box is still there, but it wasn't used in the latest Championship. Furtheron I doubt that they'd use it for a Par 4.

  I have to accept that our hole #4 will stay outside the real USO 2014 set-up, but IMHO, the company missed the goal to build an almost-perfect virtual copy of the Championship. This is what I'm saying, nothing else.

• pearljammmmer 4,268 Posts

  Wed, Nov 26 2014 9:11 PM

  Bottom line...#4 at Pinehurst should be a par 5 if it plays at 565 yards...period. If the game is supposed to reflect the U.S. Open, then WGT messed up. Yes, it is the same for everyone that plays from the same tees, but that's not the point. Holes are supposed to play to par counting a tee shot, an approach shot that makes the green, and two putts. If you can't make the green in two shots unless you have a tailwind, it is an unfair hole.