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Re: Putting strategy, to ding or not to ding

• garypinhunter 1,049 Posts

  Sat, Oct 18 2014 7:28 AM

  Tamsach:

  I move the aim and I miss the ding 90% of putts. For deceiving the software. This my purpose. I just leave the aim on the hole and I miss the ding with very light slopes and short putts. Bye

  I use this this method as well. When I first started I aimed only.  Then went to off-ding only. Then learned to aim on long putts and off-ding on short putts 6 foot and under.  Takes time to learn to putt on WGT lol.

  Here is a link on fine tuning your putts 

  Part 1

  Part 2

  Part 3

  Gary

• 1yes1no 223 Posts

  Sun, Oct 19 2014 1:50 PM

  Interesting approach.  Thanks Gary!

• YankeeJim 25,827 Posts

  Sun, Oct 19 2014 2:07 PM

  Interesting reading about dings and no dings, how to aim, etc. Not once in any tip have I seen a mention of the speed. It gets casually passed over as just a part of the routine and the impact of the correct speed gets totally lost.

  You can aim until you're blue in the face but if you don't get the speed right it's a lottery. The correct speed makes the hole bigger. Yes, bigger, it opens the side doors. Putts fall in that otherwise would lip out. Everybody's seen it. That lipout wasn't you blowing the aim or the ding, it was you getting the speed wrong-lipouts happen because the ball is travelling too fast to overcome gravity and fall in the hole. I see this a lot in mixed tier play with a TL in the group-the lower tiers struggle a bit with the fast greens.

  A good example is a small putt on Champ greens. Those little putts break first and ask questions later if you baby them. Speed is critical with them.

  Aim and ding whichever way you prefer but you'd do well to work on knowing exactly how hard to hit a putt first. Momentum can't be calculated and this is crucial to know putting on the fastest greens where downhill is in play.

• JFidanza 1,676 Posts

  Sun, Oct 19 2014 3:27 PM

  YankeeJim:

    Not once in any tip have I seen a mention of the speed.

   That lipout wasn't you blowing the aim or the ding, it was you getting the speed wrong-lipouts happen because the ball is travelling too fast to overcome gravity and fall in the hole.

   

  Thank you, Jim, I agree. Also, this point about lipouts IS VERY IMPORTANT, IMHO. I concur, when I get the speed wrong I see the lipout frequently. 

  I tried to focus on the aim and ding on this specific thread but in this thread I did hint at the primary factor of power or how hard to hit. *

  Other threads that focus on distance I say the same** and even suggest that many top players are choosing the Nike because of easy to gauge power*** even though they can get the Versa which has better precision but the increments are different.

   

  *

  JFidanza:

   ..it's all about the situation...how hard you will hit...

  [and again]

  The aim will depend on the slope, power applied...

  **

  Partsman41953:

  My problem is not distance control it is trying to find the right line ...I am having a really difficult time lining up putts. 

  Glenn

  JFidanza:

  ok distance [distance control] might be the primary factor but you say you have that pretty good.

  http://www.wgt.com/forums/p/559/1918048.aspx#1918048

  ***

  JFidanza:

  Many top level players can own the Versa but some choose the Nike 94 (I like the G. Spider 92) . One reason a TL told me was that because of the convenient increments. I've noticed that calculating the exact power for a putt, and then choosing that on the meter is the primary rewarding factor in putting. The easy-to-gauge distance on the Nike helps, I guess, in that regard.

  [emphasis mine]

  http://www.wgt.com/forums/p/195080/1915586.aspx#1915586

   

  Nike Method putter

  
  Versa putter

• garypinhunter 1,049 Posts

  Mon, Oct 20 2014 8:44 AM

  YankeeJim:

  Interesting reading about dings and no dings, how to aim, etc. Not once in any tip have I seen a mention of the speed. It gets casually passed over as just a part of the routine and the impact of the correct speed gets totally lost.

  You can aim until you're blue in the face but if you don't get the speed right it's a lottery. The correct speed makes the hole bigger. Yes, bigger, it opens the side doors. Putts fall in that otherwise would lip out. Everybody's seen it. That lipout wasn't you blowing the aim or the ding, it was you getting the speed wrong-lipouts happen because the ball is travelling too fast to overcome gravity and fall in the hole. I see this a lot in mixed tier play with a TL in the group-the lower tiers struggle a bit with the fast greens.

  A good example is a small putt on Champ greens. Those little putts break first and ask questions later if you baby them. Speed is critical with them.

  Aim and ding whichever way you prefer but you'd do well to work on knowing exactly how hard to hit a putt first. Momentum can't be calculated and this is crucial to know putting on the fastest greens where downhill is in play.

  +100 % Jim If you read the right line and miss the speed it wont go in. Having used the VGG caddy for months now It helps so much with the speed. I first get my speed and then I focus on the line.

  Gary 

• MainzMan 9,586 Posts

  Mon, Oct 20 2014 11:01 AM

  With putting, more than any other part of the game, it's about what you feel comfortable doing.  Those who miss the ding will probably never convert to aim and ding and vice versa.  Once you're happy with one method, why change it?  In this respect WGT has really got it sorted, putting should be a massive part of the game and it is. 

  I move the marker and try to ding, almost every putt.  On fairly short putts with a severe side slope I sometimes deliberately miss a little into the slope, whether this really helps is debatable though.   Probably a psychological thing.

  Where I think most aim and ding putters get it wrong is allowing enough break, particularly on faster greens.  I often have to force myself to keep moving the aim marker further away from the hole, my brain is saying Whoa, enough but my heart knows it isn't, not yet.

  Here's a great example of a huge breaking putt on championship greens.  I aimed this one about 90 degrees right of the hole.  There's obviously a lot of luck involved in sinking one like that, I probably couldn't do it again if I took 100 mulligans.

  As Jim pointed out, if the pace had been wrong it was never going in.  Regardless of where I aimed.

• JFidanza 1,676 Posts

  Tue, Oct 21 2014 12:27 AM

  JFidanza:

   

  When I choose a significant off-ding it's usually because of a major slope and I want my ball to stop near the hole.

  Sometimes I won't move the aim off the hole,  it's all about the situation...about how big the slope is, or how hard you will hit, and how hard you will off-ding.

  Even if the putt misses, the 'spin' will stall the ball nearby. The aim will depend on the slope, power applied and how much you intend to miss the center 'ding'. Generally, you may need to add some power because of the off-ding."

  Note: the putt in the middle of the vid was around the ding and it rolled down the slope, several feet away, the miss-ding stays by the hole.

   

  I'm a ding putter and an off ding putter, as needed.

  This was a massive off-ding against the heavy slope of STA #2. Notice how the ball is slowing down as it reaches the hole. I don't think I even moved the aim more than 2 feet off the pin. I think I clicked about 65% before the ding line. ('pulled' putt)

  Replay STA 2 off ding

  If I wanted to ding this shot, I'd have to aim approx 5+ feet left of pin, then dinged (attempt to ding, as the meter speeds up around the center*) at the right power, but the ball rolls up and against the slope, then the slope pushes it back down it it gets momentum and if it doesn't drop it may keep rolling., esp. on a slick green like tournament or champ speed. 

  * that's another point about intention miss-dings: the center ding line is commonly the point at where the meter is moving at its fastest. So, a solid ding is most challenging.

  edit:

  This was a massive approx 90% past ding putt, some extra power added. I even aimed a little left of the hole WITH the slope, just to pull the ball back down, which is a little atypical. If I would have aimed far right for the slope, as typical, then dinged the shot but missed the hole, I bet it would have rolled down the green because of the speed coming down from the cant.

  If I were using a 'pull' or pre-ding putt in a reversed situation, I would have to add maybe even more because, for me, it seems a pre-ding putt spins and stalls faster than the post-ding putt as mentioned above. Also, the arc of a post-ding seems wider than the pre-ding putt.

   

  BPB #15 Birdie massive off ding almost 90% push, aim slightly left (atypical) of hole

  http://www.wgt.com/replay.aspx?ID=3ea59b46-dfa9-4bc7-ae88-a3d200598e57